Is Elon Musk the greatest visionary or the greatest snake oil salesman of our age?

[cupid_stunt]

And a post it note on the dashboard that says 'Dont Panic'

And, according to the BBC, a copy of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy in the glove compartment.

 

[tim]

Why the fuck would you make anything on Venus? It's at the bottom of a gravity well almost as strong as Earth's. What you do is put the factories in Earth orbit.

OK, so mining iron ore on an asteroid, sending it to a steelwork in near earth orbit, smelting it, making it into spoons and then shipping tbem to retailers on earth. Somehow I'm not convinced that it would be the most efficient way of doing things.

 

[NoXion]

OK, so mining iron ore on an asteroid, sending it to a steelwork in near earth orbit, smelting it, making it into spoons and then shipping tbem to retailers on earth. Somehow I'm not convinced that it would be the most efficient way of doing things.

Why not? Most minerals are chemically stable under typical vacuum conditions, so it's not like it would have the kind of limited shelf-life that would demand rapid (i.e. high-energy) transportation to its destination. You could take advantage of all that plentiful solar energy and use lightsails. If you're in a hurry, you could use solar-powered laser arrays to push your lightsail craft faster. Cargo containers full of rocks aren't known for being especially delicate things to transport, so a bit of rough handling wouldn't matter, unlike with passengers.

Remember that once you're in Earth orbit, you're basically half-way to the rest of the Solar system in terms of energy expenditure. It takes 8km/s of dV to get all the way from Earth orbit to the surface of Mars, but it takes the same amount of energy just to get from Earth's surface into orbit!

For factories in Earth orbit, making deliveries to the surface wouldn't cost much energy, as it's basically all downhill.

 

[urbanspaceman]

OK, so mining iron ore on an asteroid, sending it to a steelwork in near earth orbit, smelting it, making it into spoons and then shipping tbem to retailers on earth. Somehow I'm not convinced that it would be the most efficient way of doing things.

Yes, it's a terrible idea. But nobody is suggesting that as the purpose of asteroid mining. There appear to be three viable reasons for asteroid mining, in order of current practicability:
a) extraction of volatiles, particularly water, which can be electrolysed to hydrogen and oxygen for fuel, thus avoiding cost of hauling it up from the Earth's surface
b) extraction and forming of aluminium, steel and silicon, to form structures in orbit, again avoiding cost of hauling up from the Earth's surface
c) as a bonus co-product of 2), delivery to Earth of platinum group metals

All forecasts of asteroid mining visualise massive automation, so there won't be any exploited proletarians up there. Most likely a small crew of technicians, on a ship a mile or two from the asteroid (not really practical to run the operation from Earth due to light speed communications lag) supervising robotic operations and troubleshooting/repairing machines. Similar to North Sea oil and gas operations today.

As SF writer Robert Heinlen said: "Once you get to earth orbit, you're halfway to anywhere in the solar system". You could make a case that he understated it. But the huge cost of launching payload to orbit has throttled space exploration. Until SpaceX came along the cost was somewhere around $10k per kilogram to Low Earth Orbit. Now, if the Falcon Heavy can sustain a reasonably frequent schedule and is multiply reusable, costs might fall to $500 per kg. Consider that the actual cost of just the fuel to reach orbit is only about $25 per kilogram, so there's plenty of scope to cut costs still further. As an analogy, fuel constitutes about 20% of total costs in commercial aviation. So if the launcher business could achieve similar numbers, then the cost of launching one kilogram to orbit would fall to $125 per kilogram. In reality, the operational environment faced by launchers is more hostile than that faced by aircraft, and the utilisation level will be lower, so let's say $200 per kg.

At this cost - at least 100 times cheaper (per kg) than the Space Shuttle - all sorts of activities become economically feasible: orbital hotels; robust, over-engineered, fast, unmanned probes to the outer planets; easy access to the Moon, and later Mars, again with rugged vehicles, that haven't been sliced and shaved down to the last ounce.

 

[dylanredefined]

Or if you need some of that military industrial money to fund your rocket
Rods from god: a terrifying space weapon?

 

[urbanspaceman]

Or if you need some of that military industrial money to fund your rocket
Rods from god: a terrifying space weapon?

Well the Outer Space Treaty (1966), of which all the major spacefaring states are Signatories, does contain this language:

Article IV
States Parties to the Treaty undertake not to place in orbit around the Earth any objects carrying nuclear weapons or any other kinds of weapons of mass destruction, install such weapons on celestial bodies, or station such weapons in outer space in any other manner.

Since Rods from God have tactical nuclear weapon scale effects, it could be argued that they are WMDs. And other well-paid space lawyers could argue that they are not.

 

[dylanredefined]

Well the Outer Space Treaty (1966), of which all the major spacefaring states are Signatories, does contain this language:

Article IV
States Parties to the Treaty undertake not to place in orbit around the Earth any objects carrying nuclear weapons or any other kinds of weapons of mass destruction, install such weapons on celestial bodies, or station such weapons in outer space in any other manner.

Since Rods from God have tactical nuclear weapon scale effects, it could be argued that they are WMDs. And other well-paid space lawyers could argue that they are not.

Well if you get some orbitial weapons before anyone knows whats up you win.

 

[NoXion]

Well if you get some orbitial weapons before anyone knows whats up you win.

Not necessarily. The enemy might decide that an appropriate response to being rodded from orbit is to launch their ICBMs at your cities.

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

And, according to the BBC, a copy of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy in the glove compartment.

And according to Musk himself, there's also a towel onboard...

 

[gosub]

And according to Musk himself, there's also a towel onboard...

Wow A Douglas Adams fan who is nearly in a position to implement Adams' power adapter resolution.

 

[Sprocket.]

Wow A Douglas Adams fan who is nearly in a position to implement Adams' power adapter resolution.

Douglas Adams the inspirer of dreams.

 

[gosub]

Douglas Adams the inspirer of dreams.

And he was right on fucking adapters... Used to argue it down the pub with a mate..who infuriating never understood the the logic.. And he's ended up designing fucking iPhone batteries

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

And according to Musk himself, there's also a towel onboard...

Don’t fancy clearing up the towels in his hotel room, bet he wanked himself dry on Tuesday night.

 

[Teaboy]

I dunno about firing one of his cars into space, probably should have fired the whole car company into space. Cut everyone's losses.

Elon Musk's car company in record loss

 

[moon]

Elon Musk is highly influenced by the video game series Mass Effect (Not Andromeda though), which explains a lot..

It's just a shame that the design for his SpaceX reusable launch system is so wrong. I feel it needs stabilisers emerging from higher up the body of the craft, around the pivot point area, otherwise it will be extremely susceptible to toppling from strong cross winds etc.
However stabilisers covering a larger area are also a potential risk factor in terms of obstructions etc...

 

[Rosemary Jest]

I want to know how musky he smells.

I bet he smells like a musky stoat.

Or maybe a foxy musty stoat.

Or perhaps a foxy minky musty stoat.

Either way, I need to know.

 

[gosub]

I want to know how musky he smells.

I bet he smells like a musky stoat.

Or maybe a foxy musty stoat.

Or perhaps a foxy minky musty stoat.

Either way, I need to know.

made me think of this bit on his wikipedia page : Musk was severely bullied throughout his childhood, and was once hospitalized when a group of boys threw him down a flight of stairs and then beat him until he lost consciousness.

 

[Rosemary Jest]

made me think of this bit on his wikipedia page : Musk was severely bullied throughout his childhood, and was once hospitalized when a group of boys threw him down a flight of stairs and then beat him until he lost consciousness.

He must have smelled of Old Spice

 

[dylanredefined]

made me think of this bit on his wikipedia page : Musk was severely bullied throughout his childhood, and was once hospitalized when a group of boys threw him down a flight of stairs and then beat him until he lost consciousness.

Wonder how many of them are still alive

 

[mojo pixy]

Who was in that car btw?

 

[DotCommunist]

the stig hopefully.

 

[DotCommunist]

*clarkson voice* some say explosive decompression is an agonizing way to go'

 

[Crispy]

Elon Musk is highly influenced by the video game series Mass Effect (Not Andromeda though), which explains a lot..

It's just a shame that the design for his SpaceX reusable launch system is so wrong. I feel it needs stabilisers emerging from higher up the body of the craft, around the pivot point area, otherwise it will be extremely susceptible to toppling from strong cross winds etc.
However stabilisers covering a larger area are also a potential risk factor in terms of obstructions etc...

They're very bottom heavy though. All the weight is in the engines, thrust frame and plumbing. The fuel tanks are thin walled. The legs look ungainly, but actually very stable. There's footage from the landing barge as it's being towed back to land in rough seas and the stage is slipping around all over the deck with no worries.

 

[elbows]

This reminds me why I dont like him:

SpaceX and Tesla 'almost went bankrupt'

Mr Musk remains convinced that life on Mars is both possible and necessary.

He fears another "dark age" should a third world war occur, and feels that Mars will be integral to helping the human race survive and regenerate.

He also feels there are plentiful business opportunities there.

"They will start off building a rudimentary base... then this will open up a world of new opportunities, because Mars will need pizza joints, great bars - Mars Bars," he said.

He gets a point off me for puns. Then loses a thousand for all the business opportunity wankery, and then loses a million more for the whole 'humans might fuck earth so lets start planning for a new frontier for the few', instead of tackling the insanity that could doom the multitude. This isnt going to inspire me, Its entirely predictable shit that doesnt face the real problems and challenges because it is in fact a manifestation of the problem.

 

[elbows]

 

[elbows]

The mask has slipped this year.

Tesla boss Musk rants at press on Twitter

Tesla chief executive Elon Musk launched a bitter attack on the press via a series of tweets on Wednesday.

Mr Musk said he planned to launch a website to assess the credibility of news stories and sources.

The idea appeared to be motivated by recent news reports about Tesla that he felt were unfair.

"Problem is journos are under constant pressure to get max clicks & earn advertising dollars or get fired," Mr Musk tweeted.

"Tricky situation, as Tesla doesn’t advertise, but fossil fuel companies & gas/diesel car companies are among world’s biggest advertisers."

I'm starting to get the sense that if Tesla fails, he is going to blame an old guard conspiracy.

Reveal, the investigative journalism outfit that recently covered criticisms surrounding safety at Tesla's huge car production plant, is a non-profit organisation based in Berkeley, California.

Tesla had previously referred to the organisation, which is not funded by advertising, as "extremists".

Mr Musk described the Reveal team as "just some rich kids in Berkeley who took their political science prof too seriously". Forbes currently estimates Mr Musk's wealth to be $19bn.

Scum.

 

[tim]

The mask has slipped this year.

Tesla boss Musk rants at press on Twitter





I'm starting to get the sense that if Tesla fails, he is going to blame an old guard conspiracy.



Scum.

A sad case of terminal Trumpingtons disease

 

[rekil]

I'm starting to get the sense that if Tesla fails, he is going to blame an old guard conspiracy.

Where is he going with this do you think.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Slightly heartened by how general opinion seems to be coming round to my evaluation of him as a complete fucking tool, but less heartened by the complete lack of structural analysis which might prevent complete fucking tools from having overwhelming economic power as individuals.

 

[weltweit]

Slightly heartened by how general opinion seems to be coming round to my evaluation of him as a complete fucking tool,

Care to expand a bit on that? I am interested.

but less heartened by the complete lack of structural analysis which might prevent complete fucking tools from having overwhelming economic power as individuals.