Crappy concrete crisis

[Yossarian]

Couldn't spot another thread on this - 156 schools abruptly closed because they were built with shitty concrete that could collapse at any time and that's apparently just the tip of the iceberg, how fucking incompetent did people have to be for this to arise as a sudden crisis?

One schools estates manager told the Guardian that the number of those affected in some way could eventually rise as high as 1,000, and said the crisis could end up with children being taught in temporary buildings for as long as a decade to come.

Reinforced autoclaved aerated concrete (Raac) was used until the 1990s and is now considered “life-expired” and “liable to collapse with little or no notice”, according to the Health and Safety Executive.

Schools in England seek alternative spaces amid fears concrete crisis could affect 1,000

One estates manager says children could have to be taught in temporary buildings for as long as a decade to come

www.theguardian.com

 

[farmerbarleymow]

Yeah, it looks pretty bad - there will no doubt be thousands of buildings affected in all sorts of sectors.

Most kids moved to other schools should do fine though - they're pretty resilient. We were sent to a different school when ours was found to be riddled with asbestos during some building works. Think we spent a couple of years being bused to that school.

 

[Pickman's model]

Loads of hospitals at risk too apparently

 

[bimble]

This material having a life expectancy of 30 years, is that something people only figured out after roofs started collapsing or did they know at the time of construction that the buildings were sort of temporary?

 

[Chz]

It's typical. It was known full well at the time the stuff had a 30-40 year lifespan at best, so they pushed the responsibility down the road because it was cheaper. And naturally no-one who came later paid the slightest attention.

 

[bimble]

It's typical. It was known full well at the time the stuff had a 30-40 year lifespan at best, so they pushed the responsibility down the road because it was cheaper. And naturally no-one who came later paid the slightest attention.

Are you sure? How would they have known, it being a new thing. Not saying you’re wrong just want to know.

 

[xenon]

Yeah that’s what I am wondering. Is this a recent discovery or were these designed to be replaced. I heard yesterday they stopped using it in the 70s. So fuck knows.

 

[xenon]

Was this stuff collapsing 10 years ago? What’s changed.

 

[bimble]

Yeah that’s what I am wondering. Is this a recent discovery or were these designed to be replaced. I heard yesterday they stopped using it in the 70s. So fuck knows.

Stopped in the 90s I think. I haven’t seen anyone saying that the built in obsolescence was known before then but idk,

 

[Chz]

Are you sure? How would they have known, it being a new thing. Not saying you’re wrong just want to know.

The lifespan was well known at the time, they were designed to be replaced. But as the lifespan came and went, people figured that since it hadn't fallen down it would be fine.

Edit: To be fair, there are plenty of things 80+ years old still standing that were considered to have a 50 year lifespan.

 

[DotCommunist]

I read it was carillion that had the maintenance duties and that company went down the shitter a while back.

 

[Bingoman]

Apart from schools and hospitals are there any other buildings with this concrete at risk?

 

[xenon]

I guess it’s that thing when you have an extension on the house and the roof is guaranteed for 20 years. No one bothers replacing it until it leaks or obviously looks like it’s liable to fall in But that on a grand public scale.

 

[Red Cat]

Yeah, it looks pretty bad - there will no doubt be thousands of buildings affected in all sorts of sectors.

Most kids moved to other schools should do fine though - they're pretty resilient. We were sent to a different school when ours was found to be riddled with asbestos during some building works. Think we spent a couple of years being bused to that school.

All children are different, just like adults, so they're no more or less 'resilient' than adults. What about all the neurodivergent young people already struggling to go to school who are still traumatised by all the changes over the pandemic? A lot of kids have been in a bad way since covid, this would be pretty catastrophic for mine, thankfully their school is not affected.

 

[DotCommunist]

I took lessons in portacabins 30 years ago and now they're back in a bigger way. Fucking thatcherites.

 

[bimble]

The lifespan was well known at the time, they were designed to be replaced. But as the lifespan came and went, people figured that since it hadn't fallen down it would be fine.

This says that people figured out the problem some 30 years ago, at which point they could confidently say the roofs probably won’t last more than 30 years. And they put that report on a shelf, until last week or something.

The once wonder material reinforced aerated autoclaved concrete will cause chaotic start to academic year

RAAC was once seen as ideal for shaping into lighter, pre-formed concrete components, but over time the material has weakened, sagged and exacerbated problems in buildings.

news.sky.com

 

[May Kasahara]

All children are different, just like adults, so they're no more or less 'resilient' than adults. What about all the neurodivergent young people already struggling to go to school who are still traumatised by all the changes over the pandemic? A lot of kids have been in a bad way since covid, this would be pretty catastrophic for mine, thankfully their school is not affected.

Not to mention all the special schools affected, where buildings and systems are specially adapted to meet the needs of kids with complex SEND. You can't just move a whole year group of kids with breathing apparatus, wheelchairs, mobility aids etc to a bog standard comp and hope for the best. Especially not at less than a week's notice.

 

[newme]

There's also finding space for kids from hundreds of schools somewhere else. Our nearest is slammed as it is. Couldn't suddenly take on another schools pupils.

 

[planetgeli]

Elf an safety gone mad. We're moving closer and closer to this.

 

[Chz]

This says that people figured out the problem some 30 years ago, at which point they could confidently say the roofs probably won’t last more than 30 years. And they put that report on a shelf, until last week or something.

The once wonder material reinforced aerated autoclaved concrete will cause chaotic start to academic year

RAAC was once seen as ideal for shaping into lighter, pre-formed concrete components, but over time the material has weakened, sagged and exacerbated problems in buildings.

news.sky.com

I suppose I can't comment on the situation in the UK at the time, but when they used the stuff in the 50s in Canada it was absolutely known to have a limited lifespan. The roofs of places built with it were regularly replaced when I was still a teen.

 

[Pickman's model]

Apart from schools and hospitals are there any other buildings with this concrete at risk?

Yes - social housing ‘Urgent inspections’ required to establish risk of aerated concrete

 

[planetgeli]

Not to mention all the special schools affected, where buildings and systems are specially adapted to meet the needs of kids with complex SEND. You can't just move a whole year group of kids with breathing apparatus, wheelchairs, mobility aids etc to a bog standard comp and hope for the best. Especially not at less than a week's notice.

Oh but you can. My PRU is in a 130 year old primary school. We moved there in 2016. Mould on every wall, bits falling off everywhere, a whole building partially closed for asbestos. Told we'd be there 2 years maximum.

We're still there.

But they're just traumatised kids so

 

[Poot]

A lot of schools that used to be the responsibility of local councils, are now academies and the councils no longer have any control. I wonder whether that made a difference.

 

[gosub]

Apart from schools and hospitals are there any other buildings with this concrete at risk?

Roof of local theatre got damaged in storm early April. They were going to repair it but found the same in local school early May so changed priorities. So slightly confused by the government statement yesterday.

 

[alex_]

£55bn school building plan faces axe to fund Swedish-style system

• Cash may go to institutions set up by parent groups• Move would be devastating blow, teaching union says

www.theguardian.com

This was cancelled 13 years ago

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Not releasing the names of the schools yet, to give the heads time to get shit together without being deluged by parents and journos.

Some names that won't be on the list:

Eton
Harrow
Charterhouse
Winchester
Rugby
and so on.

Which is why we're here, they do not give one tiny fuck for regular folk.

FFS, building a school with a 30 year shelf-life, pricks.

 

[maomao]

A lot of schools that used to be the responsibility of local councils, are now academies and the councils no longer have any control. I wonder whether that made a difference.

It wouldn't surprise me and it would follow the pattern of many other public sector privatisations.

 

[platinumsage]

More than 50 schools in Essex, I guess the school population there expanded a lot during the period in question as the boomers moved out of London.

 

[planetgeli]

Not releasing the names of the schools yet, to give the heads time to get shit together without being deluged by parents and journos.

Some names that won't be on the list:

Eton
Harrow
Charterhouse
Winchester
Rugby
and so on.

Which is why we're here, they do not give one tiny fuck for regular folk.

FFS, building a school with a 30 year shelf-life, pricks.

And even less of a fuck for irregular kids. See post #22

 

[gosub]

More than 50 schools in Essex, I guess the school population there expanded a lot during the period in question as the boomers moved out of London.

Only one in Hampshire and they got a lot of that London outflow