Zionists pollute 100km coastline

[teqniq]

decison to target is sort of a given, you know? Life is funny that way.

*sigh*

There was absloutely no need whatsoever to target a power station except perhaps as an example of force majeure in it's worst excesses. Please stop defending the indefensible it is insulting.

E2A: By way of explanation of the above; on the one hand you are giving us the impression that you're pissed with your own government over the whole issue of the power station incident:

The Israeli Govt. though has finally moved on the issue and is working to make amends...better late than never but I still resent the amount of time it took.

Then on the other you try to draw comparisons between a cross-border incident and some sustained shelling which whilst reprehensible does not even remotely compare to your nation's response. Completely disproportionate is the phrase I'm looking for. Been said before but it's still true.

 

[rachamim18]

Luther: I will try to be brief on this for you. PAlestine, literally, in Latin, means land of the Phillistines.Its complete name ,as given by the Roman inavder Hadrian was Syriana Palestina. Emperor Hadrian had just funushed subduing the last revolt of the Jews ina very blood war that lasteds from 132 to 153 CE/AD. At itrs completion, he destroyed the Second Temple, plowed Jerusalemn under anbd salted the Earth thereof. Killing most military aged Jewish males, ke took many of the women and children as slaves and exiled the rest. This is how the Diasporah took formal shape.


It has always existed for as long as Jews have existed but now it was the Jews lifeblood and would be vital to our continued survival. Our leaders though never forgot our homeland. Jerusalem, or being returned to Jerusalem has figured in our prayers on a daily basis, it is mentioned at every Jewish wedding, and of course at Pesach [Passover] we close with a toast to Elijah [the Prophet, blessed is his name],"Next year in Jerusalem."

The word Palestine is simply the Latin rendition of the word Phillistine whom Hadrian took to be the Jews greatest enemy after him, or more precisely more ancient and hated enemy. It had nothing to do with another people named Phillistines laving on that land for they all had been exterminated or assimilated centuried before. Also, they were not Arab but rather Mycaenean Greek.

The name Palestine was attached to the lands because after the Romans were vanquished, firrst briefly by the Persians, and then the Islamic Horde, they were not about to restore the name of a pewople who mind you still had remenants throughout the land. It would be as if offering them, currency asnd provoking yet another bloody uprising. So the name stuck.

When Sharon was born of course he was listed as Palestinian, all residents of that land, Arab or otherwise were Palestinian. This is why I today use apostrophes around the word "Palestinian" because the Arabs onlp6y coopted the word after 1948 when Israel was formed and the Jews no longer had needfor the adjective.

The Arabs adopting it gave an allusion to the ignorant that the Arabs were the older, more indigenous inhabitants of the region. In reality the name means nothing.

 

[rachamim18]

Teqniq: Tell me, and I do not mean this in a condenscending way whatsoever but do you have any military training in the lkeast? From your posts it is clear you do not. You see, before any medium to large scale incusrion you want to take out all such sites.

Why?


Two reasons: I] First we do not want life carrying on as usual. If it did, non-combatants would be out about town, in parks, offices, schols, wherever and when combat kicks off the civilian casualties would be amzingly high.

II] We do not want the opposition feeling safe and secure. We want them feeling scrambled and majorly confused, cut off. We do not want lines of communication open, hiways and major raodways passable for gathering points and ambush set ups, we do not want radio and tv brodcasters offering the opposition play by play updates. We do not want any resistance if possible.


If civlians are hunkered down inside eating their canned foods around candles listening to shortwaves, and combatants are cut off from their units and in states of major disarray, we have done job one perfectly.


I am not pissed with
Israel for targetting any power grid, that is how it should be. I must be careful what I say because here I post under my own name and my rank and mattalion, division, and unit have been discusseed. Let me say it as best cqan. Any kind of environmental damage should be mved on as quickly as possible, especially given that we share the coast with Lebanon.Any long term damage would truly be a travesty.


You call Israel's response to the kidnapping of two of its men disporportionate in nature. Really? Are you truly familiar with the dynamic of that border? Are you aware foir exampme that for almost two months prior to thsat kidnapping that almost all towns sitting in the valley below the border [picture a bowl, the rim of the bowl is Lebanese soil, the sides and bottom are Israeli farmland and vilages] had been subjected to a daily bombardment day in, day out?

Are you at all familiar with the Grad class of missile? Grads, also knows as Katyushas, were the missile of choice for Hezbollah and their buddies AMAL when launching daily volleys againt the sitting duck Israelis who were just trying to live their lives as best they could among the chaos launched by those two terror organisations.

The kidnapping, which by the way happened after 6 squadmates were murdered before their eyes, was just the figurative strawthat broke the camel's back.

 

[moono]

rachamim;

The Arabs adopting it gave an allusion to the ignorant that the Arabs were the older, more indigenous inhabitants of the region. In reality the name means nothing.

What a sap.
Palestine was inhabited in the Paleolithic, 200,000 years before the Carpenter decided he'd had enough of the Pharisees. There was agriculture there 5,000 years before the Bronze Age. The indigenous peoples are termed Semites. Palestinians are Semites.

The Zionist claim to Palestine is piss in the wind.

Judaism is a comparitively modern idea and Zionism itself is recent. There is NO Zionist claim to Palestine other than an illegal occupation. It's a crock.

 

[rachamim18]

Moono: What you have failed to master is that any "Palestinian" will gladly tellyou that they temselves are Arabs. Little lesson for you: Arab=Arabia
Jew=Judea
Where is Judea Moono?

 

[moono]

Semites are Semites, mongrel, genetically the same people.

An humanitarian emphasises our similarities, an arsehole emphasises our differences.

Edit; You just got whacked by a Neanderthal. Cute.

 

[rachamim18]

Semite is a general descrition, like Hispanic. Are all Hispanics identical in appearance, language, and cultural practices? Say the word "bicho" to a Cuban and you are merely talking about a pesky mosquito. say it though to a Puerto Rican and you will be taken as a homosexual because itis slang for the male genitalia. Get the point yet?

A Jew is a far removed from a Chaldean as you are from an Estonian.

 

[moono]

I see you're comfortable with emphasising differences.

 

[teqniq]

rachamim18

Military training? Me? noooooo, not me ta.

Understandably, your perspective is somewhat biased.

*runs for cover*

Viewed from an evironmental bias the bombing and subsequent pollution was unacceptable I don't much care how you slice it. No I don't have much geographical knowledge of the area but I do know that when I see satellite pix of a slick that looks awfuly big I think:

"Well that's just great. On top of bitter disputes and conflicts that have been going on for far too long in which countless people have suffered and died on all sides, there's now an environmental catasrophe to be dealt with. Well that's just fucking great. Kinda like the icing on the turd trifle".

Your government did behave irresponsibly and disproportionately in the recent conflict in Lebanon and I don't much care how you slice that either. There are other ways to measure whether a conflict or an action within it has been sucsessful (hint: they are not military).

There is a small chance of peace, possibly, but it would seem that from all I've read, watched and listened to that it will require massive trust, assurances and commitment from all sides concerned. Bit of a tall order really, but not completely impossible...

 

[Luther Blissett]

A Jew is a far removed from a Chaldean as you are from an Estonian.

But cherem is not far from haram.
Please, a little more solidarity with the neighbours, as you know there have been 'Plishtim' since the time of Abram and Abimelech. Who care's what they are called, or what later battles they fought, these people were already in the region when Abraham passed through Canaan on his way to Egypt from Ur.
Both Arab and Hebrew are from Abraham, and those who lived in 'Palestine' when Zionists declared 'independence' have recognised rights which shall not be supplanted by any amount of semantic trickery.

 

[rachamim18]

Moono: Why should emphasisibng differences make me any more uncomfortable than doing the same with commonalities? differences make the world an interesting place, don't you think?


Teqniq: I love the environment as much as anyone. I am a botanist by training [but not by vocation] and have always loved the outdoors. However, as a soldier, and more to the point, as a citizen of a tiny beleagured nation, I have to recognise what should take precedence. Would I care more about polluted but fixable coast, or more about tens of thousands of my countrymen and innocents in Lebanon? Really, the infrastructure is targeted so that more Lebanese are not killed. So, given these things to consider, I must put people first.


If you look at an atlas, or local map, you will see that we put our own pristine shoreline at equal risk with the action but the action, as stated, was neccessary.

Please elbaborate on how and why you think we behaved irresponsibly in that conflict please? Generalities do not do much justice to a discussion and I am bewildered by people who share your stance. Do you feel we iniated it?


Luther: Any and all non-Jewish peoples who were there at that time have long since turned to dust. Not even their cultural influence left an imprint.

"Both Arab and Hebrew are from Abraham." That is, if you take the Bible literally and I do not. If you o take it literally, you would remember that both peoples came from different women. They are then cousins, not brothers at this point. I have cousins that are half Korean, half Chinese, my own wife is Bizayan [Philippine minority originally from Borneo]. I also have half black cousins so the point is, there can be many differences even within close relations.

Zionists declared independance 30 odd years after both Arab and Jews were offered shared parts of the same land. Only Jews accepted and worked positively toward this goal.

 

[teqniq]

Teqniq: I love the environment as much as anyone. I am a botanist by training [but not by vocation]

So, what's the vocation eh?

tiny beleagured nation

bit of a bunker mentality going on here....., you really ought to be qualifying this statement: 'with very powerful friends'

Really, the infrastructure is targeted so that more Lebanese are not killed.

Bullshit, pure and simple.

action, as stated, was neccessary.

More bullshit.

Do you feel we iniated it?

Your government/military planned the whole scenario a number of months in advance and had the tacit approval of the jolly 'ol US of A amongst others:

More than a year ago, a senior Israeli army officer began giving PowerPoint presentations, on an off-the-record basis, to U.S. and other diplomats, journalists and think tanks, setting out the plan for the current operation in revealing detail. Under the ground rules of the briefings, the officer could not be identified.

source

 

[rachamim18]

In America I worked in union excavating, specialising in underground concrete jobs for heavy/hiway. I worked WTC, etc. The money was fantastic, much, much more than I could ever hope to make in botany. Now I am retired so to spesak, if my wife has her way, and will be able to enjoy my traaining in her native country, where we plan to go upon my discharge from duty.


Yes, Israel does have powerful friends but as Ioften state, there is no such thing as friendship between nations, just intersecting objectives. As soon as Israel is no longer relevant to these friends , so much for "friendship." Interestingly though, the local news has been agog with the French socialist running for President there. Her name is Royal I believe. She made a regional visit and seems to be a real cheerleader for Israel. Maybe it will be like it was back in the Suez days...who knows?


"Bullshit, pure and simple." Sorry, you arecompletely wrong in this area. Please ask anyone with any knowledge of military activities or operations and they will tell you a 101 issue. Destroying the infrastructure has a two fold objective that has the same endgame - keeping people off the streets.


If I wanted to take over your town, and wanted to minimise civilian casualties, what better way than to remove any reason for civlians to leave their homes? If I knock the elctricity off grid, telephone the same, internet, petrol, and so on why would a person leave? Sure, some diehards will do whatever but the majority will hunker down and wait to see what's up. Meanwhile, the opposition has had all communications interrupted, they cant call in reinforcements, they do not know which way is up, roads are destroyed so they cannot move weaponry into place, on and on and on. It is one of the first things one learns in the military really.


"Action as stated was neccessary." IF you lived in a steep vallye, and my group was shelling you daily from heights up above for roughly 2 months, and then, when your men are on regualr border patrol, my men blow up the border barrier and cross into your land, murder 3 men and kidnap 2 badly wounded ones, you do not find this grounds for military action? forget that the group doing this has publicly stated for years that its ultimate goal is your total annihilation...

"The Israelis planned the scenario for months and had tacit US support." Not at all. Well, to be honest, of course all scenarios are run for logistics but noone in their right mind wants to cause what very well might be semi-permanant instability on their own northern border. Hezbollah shelled US. We did not shell them. Hezbollah crossed OUR border. We did not cross the Lebanese border. Hezbollah murdered OUR men and kidnapped 2 others. We did not murder or kidnao any Hezbollah operatives . Just crossing a sovereing nation's border with willful intent is cause majeur.

As for the US, they do not approve of nearly all we do. They are quite adamant that we do not do alot of things but then we are a sovereign nation. Perhaps you never heard of the Pollard case? The AIPAC case? there are not political friendships.

That said, I do believe that America , in the beginning, saw nothing inocrrect about our reac tion being that they are at a loggerheads with both of Hezbhollah's handlers [Iran and Syria] in adddition to the organisation having trucked bombed the US Marine barracks back in the day.


Here is a hint, do not take a far left media source that regularly scrapes Israel through the mud as your guide to US/Israeli relations. That paper is the American Guardian.

All militaries play out all possible scenarios in hopes of maintaining readiness and effectivenss. In this casethough, noone could have predicted what Hezbollah did that day so the paper's fantasy is moot. "According to thge rules of the briefing, the officer could not be identified." Right, got it.

 

[teqniq]

Yes, Israel does have powerful friends but as Ioften state, there is no such thing as friendship between nations, just intersecting objectives. As soon as Israel is no longer relevant to these friends , so much for "friendship."

This much we agree on.

"Bullshit, pure and simple." Sorry, you arecompletely wrong in this area. Please ask anyone with any knowledge of military activities or operations and they will tell you a 101 issue. Destroying the infrastructure has a two fold objective that has the same endgame - keeping people off the streets.

Hmmm, now let's see - being the mere civilian that I am I reckon I would be scared witless and, if there was a chance of me fleeing the area of hostilities by any means possible I would want to do it straightaway. I seem to remember lots of people did this and got shot/bombed for their efforts. It seems like a completely failed strategy to me.

If I wanted to take over your town, and wanted to minimise civilian casualties, what better way than to remove any reason for civlians to leave their homes? If I knock the elctricity off grid, telephone the same, internet, petrol, and so on why would a person leave? Sure, some diehards will do whatever but the majority will hunker down and wait to see what's up. Meanwhile, the opposition has had all communications interrupted, they cant call in reinforcements, they do not know which way is up, roads are destroyed so they cannot move weaponry into place, on and on and on. It is one of the first things one learns in the military really.

See above.

"Action as stated was neccessary." IF you lived in a steep vallye, and my group was shelling you daily from heights up above for roughly 2 months, and then, when your men are on regualr border patrol, my men blow up the border barrier and cross into your land, murder 3 men and kidnap 2 badly wounded ones, you do not find this grounds for military action? forget that the group doing this has publicly stated for years that its ultimate goal is your total annihilation...

It is the extent of the miltary response, the resulting civilian casualties and destruction of infrastucture I would take issue with. And the fact that whether you like it or no, it seems the above action was used as a pretext to execute something already long preplanned. I see no particular reason to disbelieve the San Fransico Chronicle when I can find plenty of other links to it on Google. American Guardian eh? You'll just love the Independent.... here's a taster:

The report by Seymour Hersh quotes an unidentified US government consultant with close ties to the Israelis who says: "The Israelis told us it would be a cheap war with many benefits. Why oppose it? We'll be able to hunt down and bomb missiles, tunnels, and bunkers from the air. It would be a demo for Iran."

Nice.
source

 

[Luther Blissett]

Luther: I will try to be brief on this for you. PAlestine, literally, in Latin, means land of the Phillistines.Its complete name ,as given by the Roman inavder Hadrian was Syriana Palestina. Emperor Hadrian had just funushed subduing the last revolt of the Jews ina very blood war that lasteds from 132 to 153 CE/AD. At itrs completion, he destroyed the Second Temple, plowed Jerusalemn under anbd salted the Earth thereof. Killing most military aged Jewish males, ke took many of the women and children as slaves and exiled the rest. This is how the Diasporah took formal shape.

So are you alluding to a post Roman alteration of the text? Why else refer to that region as 'Plishtim'?

It has always existed for as long as Jews have existed but now it was the Jews lifeblood and would be vital to our continued survival. Our leaders though never forgot our homeland. Jerusalem, or being returned to Jerusalem has figured in our prayers on a daily basis, it is mentioned at every Jewish wedding, and of course at Pesach [Passover] we close with a toast to Elijah [the Prophet, blessed is his name],"Next year in Jerusalem."

Some Jews never left. The Samaritans were badly mistreated at several points - by those who returned with Cyrus. Not all Jews left after the destruction of the second Temple either.

The word Palestine is simply the Latin rendition of the word Phillistine whom Hadrian took to be the Jews greatest enemy after him, or more precisely more ancient and hated enemy. It had nothing to do with another people named Phillistines laving on that land for they all had been exterminated or assimilated centuried before. Also, they were not Arab but rather Mycaenean Greek.

A few bits of pottery, potentially traded with people at one of the best fortified sea ports on the coast do not a Mycaenean people make! Similar style of pottery was found in the Goshen. Similar style architechture to the Goshen has been found in Canaan!

The name Palestine was attached to the lands because after the Romans were vanquished, firrst briefly by the Persians, and then the Islamic Horde, they were not about to restore the name of a pewople who mind you still had remenants throughout the land. It would be as if offering them, currency asnd provoking yet another bloody uprising. So the name stuck.

Attached and changed after the fall of the second temple? And what of the Temple at Gerizim? Commandeered by the IDF? Oy. Give it back to the people. It's a Holy Place.

When Sharon was born of course he was listed as Palestinian, all residents of that land, Arab or otherwise were Palestinian. This is why I today use apostrophes around the word "Palestinian" because the Arabs onlp6y coopted the word after 1948 when Israel was formed and the Jews no longer had needfor the adjective.

You insult the others living in the region, lumping them together as 'Arabs' when what you actually mean is 'Muslims', 'Christians', 'Samaritans', and Middle Eastern Jews. Not content to marginalise the Samaritan people for centuries- a people who never left the region, and who follow Torah, you now wish to deny those you found dwelling on the land by ignoring their rich heritage. It stinks of propaganda.

The Arabs adopting it gave an allusion to the ignorant that the Arabs were the older, more indigenous inhabitants of the region. In reality the name means nothing.

In reality, your histories have been skewed and misportrayed to mislead modern Jews into thinking this. In making these revisions, you not only ignore and marginalise even your own scholars, your own archeologists, you insult all our intelligences. Why?

Zionism hasn't made life that much better for Jews through it's peddling of lies. Yes it secured Israel, but where to next? Zionism could be seen as making things far worse for Jews, and undermining the continuity of Judaism in the region. It's not something essential to Judaism and can be moved on from. Where to next?

 

[rachamim18]

Teqnic: "Failed strategy because civilians being scared, will flee instead of staying hunkered down." You are talking aboput after the fact. If it is done with lightening precison the first result is mass confusion. This causes people to stay put, not roam for greener pastures.

If a nation says, we are coming your way in exactly 3 days of course there will be alot of refugees. In this case, Israel wanred residents south of Alawi River to make haste because we going to lay waste to anything south of that demarcation line. This of course was well into the engagement.

The initial phase, if you will remember, consisted of shock and awe [to borrow an America phrase] air bombardment of the infrastructure which did accomplish what I stated. See, oneof the first things targetted are the main bridges and hiways. In the south we left one main road going north, not including alot of small roads nearer the coast.


"Executing something preplanned." No, it was not preplanned. You have to understand that all militaries all over the world sit and analyze day and night. Scenario after scenario after scenario is played out.

Lebanon being our northern neighbour and a permanant magnet of instability, where a state [Syria] that is in a state of declared war with us, along with another declared enemy [Iran] fund a very formidable proxy just over our northern fence/wall is going to cause Lebanon to figure prominently in a great many of our policy makers' scenarios.

Having unwound ourselves from a lengthly and bloody commitment with Lebanon, we were in no great hurry to become entageled again. In fact, it was the direct opposite. In fact, the 2 months of night and day shelling Hezbollah was dropping off those cliffs onto our Galillean farms and villages was casus belli in of itself. We did not even need the murder of those poor boys and kidnapping of their squadmates. But when the camel's back is broke, it is broke.


A thing about unnamed sources, take them with a grain of salt. could it be true. Conceivably. I am not a member of the hierarchy, just a mid-level officer [and newly promoted from NCO at that] and under law and regs I could not confirm it even if it were true. However, I am being open on this, it is not true at all. Although I am not among the policy makers it is a small community [relatively] and word makes its way. It never happenned.

 

[rachamim18]

Luthger: "Why refer to it as Plishtim." That term has nothing to directly do with Romans. It came about after the invasion of the Muslims out of Arabia. The Khalifate denoted it as such when it drew the immediate area into 3 different districts.

"Some Jews never left." Of course, my family being just such an example. Actually, when Hadrian "Exiled" us, he pretty much left Galilee and the mountainous areas alone. There were enough of us that we were finaly able, after Hadrian's demise, to begin rebuilding our Jerusalem Temple despite being banned for most of the ensuing 400 years from Jerusalem. It would have been there instead of the 2 mosques [probably] of not for a fire started by a huge earthquake [seen as a miracle by the Byzantine Christains, how nice].


"The Samaritans were mistreated." Samaritans are not Jews, at least to themselves or toother Jews. While we were in Exile they intermarried and took in parts of Canaanite worship. We were forbidden thereafter by our cheif rabbis from mixing with them. Today there less than 800, they are nearly extinct but do put on a good show at Pesach [Passover]. It is irnonic to note that it is now they who forbid all intermarriage.


Cannaites are not considered to be Mycaenean Greek because of pot shards Luther. Please do the relevant footwork. It is well documented.

"Goshen." Well, since Goshen and Judea bordered on one another in various eras it is no suprise.

 

[rachamim18]

Part II to Luther:

"Temple at Gerizim." That relic is only sacred to Samaritans and the IDF is not ensconced there but DOES have an armed position nearby. That i due to Arab violence, not the Samaritans. The true Temple, or its relics, stands in E. Jerusalem.


"Lumping them together." First, Arabs can be Muslim or Christain but Samaritans are NOT Arabs. For that much, neither do Druse nor Bedua subscribe [generally] to the lable Arab either. We also have Circassians and Sudanese, two Muslim minorities in Israel who are defeinitely not Arab. Israel is a mosaic of cultures. Israel has no official religion but its chief constituient is the Jewish People.


You seem to have a bit of ignorance about the Samaritans. Do you know why they donot call themselves Jews? Do you know why we do not call them Jews?


You accuse me of marginilisation, etc., etc. Why not do something novel and explain your own point of view? What do you see as the land's true history? Have you even examined what "Y Cromosomal Modalities" means? Do you even know the names of 5 genetic diseases tied to Jews [out of at least 2,000]? Plkease educate me insteadof putting me down. Tell me the true history of the land if it is not that the Jews oif today are descended from the Roman Era Exiles.

 

[teqniq]

Teqnic: "Failed strategy because civilians being scared, will flee instead of staying hunkered down." You are talking aboput after the fact. If it is done with lightening precison the first result is mass confusion. This causes people to stay put...

Says who? The military textbooks, training, gameplans? This is absurd. It is all very well and good to rely on such things, reality has a nasty habit of getting in the way I fear.

The initial phase, if you will remember, consisted of shock and awe [to borrow an America phrase] air bombardment of the infrastructure which did accomplish what I stated. See, oneof the first things targetted are the main bridges and hiways. In the south we left one main road going north...

Much good it did though, it may have inconvenienced the opposition but it did not stop them. In regards to roads etc the main result was probably to hinder ordinary people who just wanted to get as far away as possible. In respect of the power station one of the main results was a pollution catastrope to no particular good purpose.

all militaries all over the world sit and analyze day and night. Scenario after scenario after scenario is played out.

Really? Is that what they do? I would never have guessed.

It never happenned.

Hahahahahahaha

 

[rachamim18]

Yes, says textbooks [at least the ones I was forced to read] but more importantly, subjective evidence. You might remember when those civlians were being hurt and killed , they were on the only main s/n road in existence south of Alawi. Had all routeds been left open it woulfd have been mass confusion and many, many more non-combative deaths than had occurred.


No, you will never stop the opposition but then that is not the objective with a lightning run. It is a baltant display of power and let me tell you, it often works. Not only with us. The US in the Gulf War was able to take Baghdad with a minimum of opposition. Hezbollah was a bit different due to their dug in defences. They have an extensive underground system so they just dug in and waited instead of shooting and fleeing as in times past.


"Power Station." I hate pollution as I have already stated a couple of times but if it will save lives on any side then I am all for it being taken out. The prinicple is tried and true despite it making little sense to you.


You laugh when I state "it never happened" but my word is better than theirs simply because I attribute my words. Someone offering an anonymous piece is able to insert anythijng under the sun with free reign.

 

[moono]

Someone offering an anonymous piece is able to insert anythijng under the sun with free reign.

Like your 1980 'Hamas Charter', for example, an outdated and unsigned document .

I'm glad I'm finally kindling your sense of responsibility.

 

[rachamim18]

Moono: Please tell us about the new HAMAS Charter, or a signed HAMAS Charter. And for the record, I believe the Charter was ratified in 87, not 80.

To others: There is only one Charter, ratified by the main body in I believe 87. It was not signed so as not to incur the wrath of Israel's "Focused Foiling" [Extra Judicial Execution] program.

 

[moono]

Hamas are a modern political force, rachamaim, a government even. They are quite up front and open about their intentions.

None of that crap you keep mentioning features at all. For all you know, your 1980 'Hamas Charter' was written by Mossad.

 

[teqniq]

Yes, says textbooks [at least the ones I was forced to read] but more importantly, subjective evidence. You might remember when those civlians were being hurt and killed , they were on the only main s/n road in existence south of Alawi. Had all routeds been left open it woulfd have been mass confusion and many, many more non-combative deaths than had occurred.

How the fuck do you arrive at that conclusion?

No, you will never stop the opposition but then that is not the objective with a lightning run. It is a baltant display of power and let me tell you, it often works. Not only with us. The US in the Gulf War was able to take Baghdad with a minimum of opposition. Hezbollah was a bit different due to their dug in defences. They have an extensive underground system so they just dug in and waited instead of shooting and fleeing as in times past.

It wasn't really a lightning run though was it? I recall that your military wanted more time but the government got (eventually) leant on by the U.S. Also it doesn't do too well to attempt to compare the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq and your ill-conceived foray into Lebanon. The two are rather different: the Iraqi army (a great deal of whom were conscripts) were completely demoralised and had no stomach for a fight. Hizbollah on the other hand are/were well-organised and supplied had the will and the strategy to resist. As an aside the U.S. army may have taken Baghdad with ease but things are not quite so rosy there these days eh?

"Power Station." I hate pollution as I have already stated a couple of times but if it will save lives on any side then I am all for it being taken out. The prinicple is tried and true despite it making little sense to you.

Oh I think at the end of the day it makes perfect sense to me. It was as you've already stated above 'a blatant display of power' and not a miltary objective per se.

You laugh when I state "it never happened" but my word is better than theirs simply because I attribute my words. Someone offering an anonymous piece is able to insert anythijng under the sun with free reign.

You have attributed nothing of any reasonable substance as far as I can ascertain - furthermore it is a common practise in the world of journalism (as I suspect you are probably aware) to protect one's sources from being identified. Indeed many people would not consent to being a source if they thought there was any chance of their being exposed. Remember Watergate? Hmmmm? I laughed because you sounded like something out of one of those Hollywood movies where there's one of those goverment conspiracy things going on and the over-inquisitive reporter (or whoever) is advised by the govenment type that it never happened, the inferrence being you could wind up dead if you ask too many of the wrong questions. Now if it comes to choosing the reportage of the Independent et al over your unatributable claims I know which I'll choose any day.