Zionists murder more Gazans.

[bristol_citizen]

can you please stop discrediting the other semitic tribes by this constant refferal to anti semitism meaning in reality juedophobic behaviour. it is not anti semitic unless you disown the other tribes of semite and exclusivise the term to the jew's which in itself is a racist act and moreover disempowering ... not all semites are jews. anti jewish action thought or deed is juedophobic....

Why not sue him for libel

 

[Spion]

What 'points' do you want answering?

You had said that Hizbullah was anti semitic. I said that those who support it wouldn't care a damn about that as to them Jews are likely to be viewed differently to how we in Europe see them. I said that for a person in Europe Jews are likely to be seen as an oppressed minority that have been treated badly for centuries and were subject to mass murder on an unprecedented scale. On the other hand to a person in S Lebanon or a Palestinian refugee camp Jews are people who drove them off their land, stole it and now bomb them and their compatriots on a regular basis.

You have failed to challenge that point. Have a crack at it if you like, tho I'm not expecting much given your track record so far.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

I see your point, and have some sympathy, but I don't know if I can be arsed trying to change what has become accepted usage

sure we should still call people darkies right i mean it's accepted use... what about nig nog, paki, cooli, kyke, hook nose ... you see my point... yeah... accepted doens't mean correct, and if it's actually racist terminology it should and indeed must be challenged at every point.

Moreover, in this situation, the fact is that the isreali right wing are intent on exclusivising isreal and the surrounding areas of palestine by the revision of history to show that they have some kind of legitimate connection which predates the current semitic peoples indiginious to the area, they are doing this through out the occupied territories and indeed are even in areas inventing cultural and historical artifacts, places and sites to justify this action. This is all to imply their actions are legitimate. Primarily, the use of language and the misapporpreation of terminology is leading this; thus anti semite becomes shorthand not for being against the indignious semitic peoples of the region but anti jewish; collective punishment becomes security action, illegal apartide wall becomes a security fence, children throwing stones at soilders firing into their villages become terrorists, families who attempt to farm their land become incurssions into isreali territories....

you see my point...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Why not sue him for libel

becuase he hasn't personally said something against me ....

why don't you try contributing to this forum previous attempts at trolling here are met with rather swifter action than in other forums due to the sensative nature of the topics discussed...

try engauging in the debate or failing that attempt to engauge your brain...


or do one...

 

[angry bob]

can you please stop discrediting the other semitic tribes by this constant refferal to anti semitism meaning in reality juedophobic behaviour. it is not anti semitic unless you disown the other tribes of semite and exclusivise the term to the jew's which in itself is a racist act and moreover disempowering ... not all semites are jews. anti jewish action thought or deed is juedophobic....

Main Entry: an·ti-Sem·i·tism
Pronunciation: "an-tE-'se-m&-"ti-z&m, "an-"tI-
Function: noun
: hostility toward or discrimination against Jews as a religious, ethnic, or racial group

an·ti-Sem·i·tism (nt-sm-tzm, nt-)
n.
Hostility toward or prejudice against Jews or Judaism.
Discrimination against Jews

 

[Spion]

sure we should still call people darkies right i mean it's accepted use... what about nig nog, paki, cooli, kyke, hook nose ... you see my point... yeah... accepted doens't mean correct, and if it's actually racist terminology it should and indeed must be challenged at every point.

Moreover, in this situation, the fact is that the isreali right wing are intent on exclusivising isreal and the surrounding areas of palestine by the revision of history to show that they have some kind of legitimate connection which predates the current semitic peoples indiginious to the area, they are doing this through out the occupied territories and indeed are even in areas inventing cultural and historical artifacts, places and sites to justify this action. This is all to imply their actions are legitimate. Primarily, the use of language and the misapporpreation of terminology is leading this; thus anti semite becomes shorthand not for being against the indignious semitic peoples of the region but anti jewish; collective punishment becomes security action, illegal apartide wall becomes a security fence, children throwing stones at soilders firing into their villages become terrorists, families who attempt to farm their land become incurssions into isreali territories....

you see my point...

I think all these points can be made without having to have a scrap over the term 'anti-semitism'. Meanwhile we should be making sure that all those who scream 'anti-semitism' at any criticism of Israel are not hiding their anti-Arab racism behind such protests.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Semite

denoting the language group that includes Hebrew, Arabic, Aramaic, Assyrian, etc. In recent use often with the specific sense "Jewish," but not historically so limited.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=anti-Semitism

Not etymologically restricted to anti-Jewish theories, actions or policies, but almost always used in this sense.

http://archaeology.about.com/od/sterms/g/semitic.htm

Definition: The term Semitic tribes (or Semites) refers to several groups of nomads and camel pastoralists who spoke related Semitic languages and included Arabs, Aramaeans, Jews, Carthaginians, Ethiopians, Abyssinians, and Phoenicians. They roamed Arabia and Mesopotamia beginning somewhere in the third to fourth millennium BC, and dominated the Babylonian society beginning about 3000 BC. They are associated with the invention of the earliest alphabet, from evidence found at Serabit el-Khadem, on the Sinai peninsula of modern Egypt.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

I think all these points can be made without having to have a scrap over the term 'anti-semitism'. Meanwhile we should be making sure that all those who scream 'anti-semitism' at any criticism of Israel are not hiding their anti-Arab racism behind such protests.

i think the exclusiviseation of the term anti semite is symptomatic

 

[angry bob]

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Semite



http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=anti-Semitism



http://archaeology.about.com/od/sterms/g/semitic.htm

nevertheless ... the dictionary definition of 'anti-semitism' is fairly clear.

not that it really matters, but you cant really accuse people of using the wrong term when they are using it according to the dictionary.

 

[bristol_citizen]

You had said that Hizbullah was anti semitic. I said that those who support it wouldn't care a damn about that as to them Jews are likely to be viewed differently to how we in Europe see them. I said that for a person in Europe Jews are likely to be seen as an oppressed minority that have been treated badly for centuries and were subject to mass murder on an unprecedented scale. On the other hand to a person in S Lebanon or a Palestinian refugee camp Jews are people who drove them off their land, stole it and now bomb them and their compatriots on a regular basis.

You have failed to challenge that point. Have a crack at it if you like, tho I'm not expecting much given your track record so far.

I addressed this in post 22; then you went bonkers and decided to sue me for libel .

 

[bristol_citizen]

try engauging in the debate or failing that attempt to engauge your brain...


or do one...

I have been engaging in debate. Clearly not one that suits your peculiar tastes though.

 

[Spion]

It's interesting that (according to the Wiki entry) the term was promoted initially by those writing against the Jews http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Semitism#Etymology_and_usage

Really, it should be extended to all semites though

 

[Spion]

I addressed this in post 22; then you went bonkers and decided to sue me for libel .

No you didn't. We had been talking about Hizbullah and South Lebanon then in post 22 you started wittering on about 'the majority of Shia's[sic]' and the great insights you had into what they thought. Then you started making those cowardly insinuations about anti semitism.

You still haven't told me why, in the experience of a Shia in S Lebanon or Palestinian refugee, Jews are nothing but bringers of death and suffering. I mean, who has barred the refugees from returning to their homes and who bombs them day after day? I know you're a bit thick but put yourself in their shoes and tell me what other experiences of Jews they may have had that could modify this view.

 

[bristol_citizen]

No you didn't. We had been talking about Hizbullah and South Lebanon then in post 22 you started wittering on about 'the majority of Shia's[sic]' and the great insights you had into what they thought. Then you started making those cowardly insinuations about anti semitism.

You still haven't told me why, in the experience of a Shia in S Lebanon or Palestinian refugee, Jews are nothing but bringers of death and suffering. I mean, who has barred the refugees from returning to their homes and who bombs them day after day? I know you're a bit thick but put yourself in their shoes and tell me what other experiences of Jews they may have had that could modify this view.

You assume that they have a theocratic view rather than a secular analysis. Your theocratic view might see "jews as the bringer of death" a secular analysis is more likely to deal with the state of Israel and the realities of contemporary geopolitics.
And can you cut out the insults please? They're not even very clever ones.

 

[angry bob]

You still haven't told me why, in the experience of a Shia in S Lebanon or Palestinian refugee, Jews are nothing but bringers of death and suffering. I mean, who has barred the refugees from returning to their homes and who bombs them day after day? I know you're a bit thick but put yourself in their shoes and tell me what other experiences of Jews they may have had that could modify this view.

I understand what you're saying but for god's sake make a distinction between Jews and Israel. Anyone, refugee or not, who thinks that "Jews are nothing but bringers of death and suffering" is an anti-semite (or judeophobe if you prefer).

 

[Spion]

You assume that they have a theocratic view rather than a secular analysis. Your theocratic view might see "jews as the bringer of death" a secular analysis is more likely to deal with the state of Israel and the realities of contemporary geopolitics.
And can you cut out the insults please? They're not even very clever ones.

I don't have a 'theocratic view' and I don't assume one. Anyway, you're still avoiding the issue. Let's address your vague and obfuscating comments tho - In what way is the average S Lebanese or Gaza resident is likely to experience 'the state of israel and the realities of contemporary geopolitics'? Through bombs, aircraft, tanks, soldiers and artillery shells. Right or wrong?

I'll cut out the insults when you quit the allusions to anti-semitism and if you show any attempt to prove you are other than just some thick kid who believes all he's ever been told about Israel.

 

[Spion]

I understand what you're saying but for god's sake make a distinction between Jews and Israel. Anyone, refugee or not, who thinks that "Jews are nothing but bringers of death and suffering" is an anti-semite (or judeophobe if you prefer).

*I* do distinguish between Jews and Israel. Some of the best anti-zionists I know are Jews. It's all getting a little far from the original point now but Bristol boy had complained that hizbullah is anti-semitic, oops, anti-Jewish, and I said that it may be but to be anti jewish in S Lebanon or Gaza is quite a different thing than in London.

 

[bristol_citizen]

I'll cut out the insults when you quit the allusions to anti-semitism and if you show any attempt to prove you are other than just some thick kid who believes all he's ever been told about Israel.

I asked you politely to quit this shit. You haven't. So fuck off arsehole.

 

[angry bob]

to be anti jewish in S Lebanon or Gaza is quite a different thing than in London.

I disagree.

In the same way, a white racist in Zimbabwe say, is no different from a white racist in London.

 

[moono]

angry bob;

nevertheless ... the dictionary definition of 'anti-semitism' is fairly clear.

Nothing is set in stone, bob, and it's clearly a misnomer. The term was coined to be derogatory to all Semitic people, not simply jews. It has become associated with jews but that's strictly an incorrect usage. Other Semites have started to complain. Time for change.

 

[Spion]

I asked you politely to quit this shit. You haven't. So fuck off arsehole.

Temper temper

Polite?!!! You've spent most of your time making cowardly allusions that I am in some way anti-jewish.

 

[Spion]

I disagree.

In the same way, a white racist in Zimbabwe say, is no different from a white racist in London.

Err, well they are quite different from the cases I've been talking about. Both your white racists are (or at least have been until very recently) in positions of greater power, socially and economically, than black people.

In Europe, Jews are and have been a discriminated against minority vis a vis the majority of the population.

In the middle east that role has been turned on its head and Jews are the oppressor of non-Jewish people there.

 

[bristol_citizen]

Temper temper

Polite?!!! You've spent most of your time making cowardly allusions that I am in some way anti-jewish.

You are.

 

[big footed fred]

when will you stop attempting to portray them as an equity of oppertunity between the two sides...

When will you start reading the post before posting a reply ?

My point is simple - Both sides are willing to kill anyone as long as they are from the other side.
The israelis may be better at it but the arabs are doing their best.

Come on anti israeli types, just try to admit that both sides have total bastards doing the killing.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

I disagree.

In the same way, a white racist in Zimbabwe say, is no different from a white racist in London.

how can you disagree, if palestinians in gaza (an they don't on the whole) were to say fuck the jews they are cunt's do you imagine for a econd it's the same as nick griffin uttering the same in the uk... deviod of context... much as your statement is... one will be systematically abused by a group and may rightly feel animosity towards them which over time can build to hatred or even bigotry, the other is a disassociated racist with ideals born out of prejudice (to prejudge) the difference is therefore clear cut on born out of experince the other out of the fear of what may be or that they have pre judged to maybe happen... context in these things is all...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

When will you start reading the post before posting a reply ?

when it comes to your twat self then that'd be a never the day you have summit usefull to say on any subject i'll snog angery bob for an hour.... with tounges...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

You are.

erm they clearly are not... and this tar people with the brush of juedophobia in order and fail to continually answer reasonable questions is basically the poltical equiverlent of going ner ner na ner ner and sticking your fingers in your ears and waggling them enguage debate respond to questions posed or comments raised or fuck off ... this riddiculious contiunal i'll ask the questions self materbation wins you no friends and makes for short life span here on the ME forum where such trollery isn't tollerated for long with good reason...

as i said engauge or engauge brain or fuck off..

 

[Spion]

My point is simple - Both sides are willing to kill anyone as long as they are from the other side.
The israelis may be better at it but the arabs are doing their best.

Come on anti israeli types, just try to admit that both sides have total bastards doing the killing.

There's a lot to be said for employing total bastards as killers, so I've got no problem with that. Only one side here is completely in the wrong tho, and that is the one that occupies stolen land and refuses to allow refugees from that land to return. Zionism = theft, racism and death

 

[Spion]

You are.

You haven't got a clue, sonny. You've been very brave but run along now before you piss your pants

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

When will you start reading the post before posting a reply ?

My point is simple - Both sides are willing to kill anyone as long as they are from the other side.
The israelis may be better at it but the arabs are doing their best.

Come on anti israeli types, just try to admit that both sides have total bastards doing the killing.

good edit but still trying to apply an equity to a situation where there is none... which is a best simplistic but in your case deliberate as an attempt to negate the reality to support isreali...

I'm not anti isreal, i have good isreali freinds i'm anti isreali military action spurned on by isreali/US poltics fuck you and your misrepresentations....