Youtube Islamic Population Explosion Video

[Ibn Khaldoun]

There was a similar claim made in an article in the telegraph the other day. The article reeked with barely concealed racism. If a mainstream broadsheet is peddling this populist bullshit then things are looking bad.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...hic-time-bomb-transforming-our-continent.html

It's a systematic effort on the part of the ruling class to foster mutual hostility and suspicion. It strengthens them and, of course, PI.

Also check out Clarion Fund - shady...

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

I'M NOT IN EUROPE.

That's why i'm asking a serious question.

I was hoping for your opinions.

The subtext of your question is that you have an opinion about the issue though. And if you have an opinion I want you to state exactly what it is based on. By the way, my questions are just as easily answered by referring to your experiences of immigration into the US. So go for it.

 

[laptop]

@DM:

I didn't refer you to "the Native American story".

I chose carefully to refer you to one, very specific, reaction to immigration, itself springing from the cultural effects of that immigration.

 

[dilute micro]

The subtext of your question is that you have an opinion about the issue though. And if you have an opinion I want you to state exactly what it is based on. By the way, my questions are just as easily answered by referring to your experiences of immigration into the US. So go for it.

My opinion on muslim european immigration is based only on ifs. That's because I can't get any europeans to talk about it without posturing for a fight. 'If' it's the same as in the US then I'd expect the only ones that will assimilate will be the europeans eventually. But I'm different. I'm not satisfied with supporting my opinions on ifs.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

It's a systematic effort on the part of the ruling class to foster mutual hostility and suspicion. It strengthens them and, of course, PI.

Also check out Clarion Fund - shady...

I wish it was that simple. I do not believe in a 'ruling class' that is conscious of itself enough to be able to have any divide and rule agenda. The state is far too incompetent to be able to pull off anything like that.

My belief is that this sort of story follows a gradual trend that tends to rear its head more prominently in times of economic hardship when people feel aggrieved. The move to the far right is not inevitable and it is certainly avoidable in the future if we fix this mess of an economic system.

By the way, I have no idea what you mean by PI.

 

[dilute micro]

@DM:

I didn't refer you to "the Native American story".

I chose carefully to refer you to one, very specific, reaction to immigration, itself springing from the cultural effects of that immigration.

 

[butchersapron]

What has the south vomited up this time?

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

My opinion on muslim european immigration is based only on ifs. That's because I can't get any europeans to talk about it without posturing for a fight. 'If' it's the same as in the US then I'd expect the only ones that will assimilate will be the europeans eventually. But I'm different. I'm not satisfied with supporting my opinions on ifs.

Stop avoiding the question. I asked you specifically to refer to the US in your answer. Not that you would need to refer to any country because its a general point we are discussing here anyway.

I'll repeat myself despite getting rather fed up of having to do so. In what ways do muslim immigrants not 'assimilate' in your opinion? What would you like them to do in order to prove their 'assimilation'? Serious question.

 

[laptop]

My tentative suggestion that the reaction of "US culture" to new waves of immigration is as irrational, defensive, ahistorical and permeated by magical thinking as the Ghost Dance is thereby confirmed.

 

[dilute micro]

Stop avoiding the question. I asked you specifically to refer to the US in your answer. Not that you would need to refer to any country because its a general point we are discussing here anyway.

I'll repeat myself despite getting rather fed up of having to do so. In what ways do muslim immigrants not 'assimilate' in your opinion? What would you like them to do in order to prove their 'assimilation'? Serious question.

You'll answer my question first and stop pretending to not understand what assimilate means.

Lets start with basics like:
language
religion
cultural norms

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

I wish it was that simple. I do not believe in a 'ruling class' that is conscious of itself enough to be able to have any divide and rule agenda. The state is far too incompetent to be able to pull off anything like that.

It's not the state, it's the elites in general, who control the media, with their geopolitical and class interests. This is not the first time, and not the last. They're quite conscious of what they're doing.

By the way, I have no idea what you mean by PI.

Political Islam.

 

[butchersapron]

Hello al kahol

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

Hello al kahol

you mean me?

 

[butchersapron]

you mean me?

Yeah

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

You'll answer my question first and stop pretending to not understand what assimilate means.

Lets start with basics like:
language
religion
cultural norms

Oh will I now? Well seeing as the fuhrer has commanded me (and also I am feeling patient enough to humour you for now)...

Language: A few older people may struggle with the language I am sure, but as a resident of a city with a large muslim population I have almost never come accross a person who I cannot talk to in English. The only people I have met who lack language skills are those who have arrived recently and have not had time to learn. Mind you I can only think of one or two occasions when this has happened. ALL people I know have a strong desire to learn english.

Religion: Noone will, or should, give up their religion simply because they are surrounded by people with a different one. Why should they?

Cultural norms: Such as what?

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

Yeah

hay thar

im not actually drunk, if that's what that's supposed to mean

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

It's not the state, it's the elites in general, who control the media, with their geopolitical and class interests. This is not the first time, and not the last. They're quite conscious of what they're doing.



Political Islam.

Ok fair enough. I disagree with you but don't really want to get into that conversation though at this time. One debate at a time is enough for me at half one in the morning.

 

[DotCommunist]

I wish it was that simple. I do not believe in a 'ruling class' that is conscious of itself enough to be able to have any divide and rule agenda. The state is far too incompetent to be able to pull off anything like that.

My belief is that this sort of story follows a gradual trend that tends to rear its head more prominently in times of economic hardship when people feel aggrieved. The move to the far right is not inevitable and it is certainly avoidable in the future if we fix this mess of an economic system.

By the way, I have no idea what you mean by PI.

this entirely plausible assumption does not take into account how attitudes and prejudices although not overtly practised can still be put forward by a sort of cultural momentum. It does not require active agents, although there may be active agents, but regardless a group attitude can further its spoken and non-spoken agendas through the control and dictate of media by the dominant class. And then they will retroactively seek to paint that social control as benign common sense through dominant modes of media and common discourse.

Does this make any sense to you?

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

this entirely plausible assumption does not take into account how attitudes and prejudices although not overtly practised can still be put forward by a sort of cultural momentum. It does not require active agents, although there may be active agents, but regardless a group attitude can further its spoken and non-spoken agendas through the control and dictate of media by the dominant class. And then they will retroactively seek to paint that social control as benign common sense through dominant modes of media and common discourse.

Does this make any sense to you?

Yes, it makes complete sense. I can definitely agree with an interpretation that places emphasis on how systems perpetuate themselves. It is the idea of a centralised 'elite'; some kind of shady organisation directing things, that doesn't seems probable to me.

Bugger! I didn't want to derail the topic of the thread but got sucked in anyway. Ahh well! It was a good point you made Dot

 

[dilute micro]

Okay well at least you're talking with me.

cultural norms like how you do things, what you wear, what you eat...etc. How do they feel about government. How do they feel about you in general.

What about school? Do they agree with what's in the books. Would they change them if they were in charge?

What I'm trying to see here is how much of a cultural overhaul do you think is possible. If you do think it's possible then the film makes a valid case even if it's off on the numbers and the time it would take.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Okay well at least you're talking with me.

cultural norms like how you do things, what you wear, what you eat...etc. How do they feel about government. How do they feel about you in general.

What about school? Do they agree with what's in the books. Would they change them if they were in charge?

What I'm trying to see here is how much of a cultural overhaul do you think is possible. If you do think it's possible then the film makes a valid case even if it's off on the numbers and the time it would take.

What people wear and eat has nothing to do with me.

The only political requirement is that democracy and freedom is maintained. Apart from a handfull of loonies on the fringes, muslims accept democracy just as much as anyone I've met. And why wouldnt they? It's in everyones interests for our politicians to be accountable to the public.

How people feel about me is up to them also. I can't generalise about other peoples generalisations, but I can say that from my personal experience I am treated in proportion to the way I treat other people. If I'm respectful to others then it is more likely they will be the same to me. This is the same for anyone regardless of whether or not they are muslim, christian, athiest or otherwise.

I don't know about the schools question so can't answer. What I do know is that there are schools of all sorts of religios denominations. I myself went to a catholic school and am opposed to any educational institution that is formed on the grounds of promoting one religion over the other.

If it means anything, I doubt that most english people believe what is in the textbooks, but that is an issue of society in general and a piss poor educational system.

Anyhoo, I need to log off and pack a suitcase. Getting on a plane in about 2 hours and havent even started.

 

[butchersapron]

What people wear and eat has nothing to do with me.

The only political requirement is that democracy and freedom is maintained.

Wishy washy meaningless. (or not, dangerous)

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

There, you finally came out and said it (you spelded it wrong though) and will pretend that you meant that's what THEY think.

It is pretty much what they think. I am as much insignificant untermensch as anyone else. In fact Butchers, it was only more recent aspects of the heist that got me reading Marx for the 1st time in ages.

As soon as the MSM started saying that it was socialist to underwrite capitalism we were into a different dimension of doublethink, even if the playbook was there all along.

There are plenty of people who fall for "Divide and Rule" and plenty who don't. In the case of the UK the right seem to be a bit better at a developed narrative than the still too divided left. Perhaps the gap is not so wide, but certainly MSM seems to prefer a populist right narrative which often implies an essentially racist tack.

You might attempt to deny that the elite manipulate the public. You would be denying history. You might try and strawman that I myself am looking down on people while me, you and the vast majority are the ones being looked down on. Thus you would, in a small way, be playing into the hands of the oligarchs.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Wishy washy meaningless. (or not, dangerous)

Fuck off is it! Why is it wishy washy to not give a shit what other people wear? How is it any of my business? I mean if someone told me what I should and shouldn't wear then I'd tell em to piss off. Or are you just trolling again like you usually do?