Yippeeeeeee! Nintendo Wii!

[Kid_Eternity]

Those things only become a concern when you try to do too much. If frame rate slows down, then draw less complicated geometry. It shouldn't hurt the gameplay. Computers got good enough to entertain us in a zillion different ways a few years ago. Making them better does not make them more entertaining.

Not strictly true, I don't really want to get into a graphics versus gameplay debate becuase I like good gameplay but I recognise that without graphical progress we'd all still be playing platformers like Mario on a console like the NES. Not an ideal state for a gamer if you ask me.

I like the Wii because it offers something different (although I don't buy into all the Nintendo propaganda; it's not that they care about games, it's they know they can nolonger compete in the areas Sony and Micro$hite now dominate) but I also like PC gaming, xbox gaming and DS gaming. Basically I want good gaming experiences...

 

[Kid_Eternity]

I think the key to things like the draw distance/frame rate is simple - the player should not notice it.

If it is noticable then the complexity of the graphics should be reduced accordingly. If the gamelplay is good enough then the complexity of the graphics is really not that important.

Again not strictly true, some games need decent graphical power...

 

[ChrisFilter]

(although I don't buy into all the Nintendo propaganda; it's not that they care about games, it's they know they can nolonger compete in the areas Sony and Micro$hite now dominate)

I disagree. It might be that they care about games because they can't compete with Sony and MS, but they do care about games.

Anyway, it's a two horse race. Xbox vs Nintendo Wii. The PS3 is a failure before it's even started. I don't know anyone who's even tempted to get one at launch, nor anyone who'll pay any more than about £250 for one. Ubergeeks aside, who the fuck would pay that much?! No-one seems that bothered about the 360 either, I don't personally know anyone who owns one or is tempted by one. We have one at work, but no-one plays anything but PES on it.

 

[The Groke]

Again not strictly true, some games need decent graphical power...

Hmm - that's slightly strange circular reasoning.

A game only needs decent graphical power if it designed to output a certain complexity of graphical detail.

Since we have had the ability to accurately render fully immersive 3D environments including "real" objects in such a way that anyone - even a non gamer - could recognise instantly what was being portrayed/represented, I don't think any game has really needed to push those limits.

I can't think of any game whose overall game play and mechanics have really required or been affected by, the latest and greatest graphics engine.

That is not to say that more detailed and realistic environments are not desirable of course, I just couldn't agree that they are essential.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Hmm - that's slightly strange circular reasoning.

A game only needs decent graphical power if it designed to output a certain complexity of graphical detail.

Since we have had the ability to accurately render fully immersive 3D environments including "real" objects in such a way that anyone - even a non gamer - could recognise instantly what was being portrayed/represented, I don't think any game has really needed to push those limits.

I can't think of any game whose overall game play and mechanics have really required or been affected by, the latest and greatest graphics engine.

That is not to say that more detailed and realistic environments are not desirable of course, I just couldn't agree that they are essential.

Remember Stunt Race FX on the SNES? To do that game well you needed more graphical power (the game was sluggish as hell). You'd never see Gran Turismo, Colin McRae Rally or anything like it without decent graphical power. We'd all still be playing poll position and pong without progress in this area!

 

[The Groke]

Remember Stunt Race FX on the SNES? To do that game well you needed more graphical power (the game was sluggish as hell). You'd never see Gran Turismo, Colin McRae Rally or anything like it without decent graphical power. We'd all still be playing poll position and pong without progress in this area!

Oh of course, which is why I provided the caveat:

"Since we have had the ability to accurately render fully immersive 3D environments including "real" objects in such a way that anyone - even a non gamer - could recognise instantly what was being portrayed/represented"

But that has been for a good couple of years now...

I don't think that normal-mapping, advanced particle effects or HDR lighting etc etc etc have in anyway contributed to the core gameplay of any recent release.

The only thing which has emerged over the last few years which has the potential to enhance gameplay are advanced physics.....and no-one has really done much with this other than ragdoll corpses and the HL2 Gravity gun.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

I don't think that normal-mapping, advanced particle effects or HDR lighting etc etc etc have in anyway contributed to the core gameplay of any recent release.

Agreed but I wouldn't want progress in this area to stop simply because Nintendo says it's unimportant now...

 

[The Groke]

Agreed but I wouldn't want progress in this area to stop simply because Nintendo says it's unimportant now...

Indeed not.

It would just be nice to see a more balanced approach to both innovation and shinyness.

 

[Crispy]

Indeed not.

It would just be nice to see a more balanced approach to both innovation and shinyness.

And a wider ranging and more inclusive game design.

 

[The Groke]

And a wider ranging and more inclusive game design.

Maybe we should all stop blathering on here and go and design some games eh!

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Maybe we should all stop blathering on here and go and design some games eh!

 

[Strawman]

I disagree. It might be that they care about games because they can't compete with Sony and MS, but they do care about games.

Anyway, it's a two horse race. Xbox vs Nintendo Wii. The PS3 is a failure before it's even started. I don't know anyone who's even tempted to get one at launch, nor anyone who'll pay any more than about £250 for one. Ubergeeks aside, who the fuck would pay that much?! No-one seems that bothered about the 360 either, I don't personally know anyone who owns one or is tempted by one. We have one at work, but no-one plays anything but PES on it.

nonsense, the PS2 is still outselling the 360. Ive got a 360, but the lineup of games is still pretty weak over 12 months after release. Apart from a few platform exclusives the 360 is awash with watered down ports of PS2 games except with shinier graphics (PES, FIFA, Tiger woods etc). It really does seem like devs are waiting for the PS3 before wholly committing to the "next gen".

I do take your point about people not wanting either a 360 or a PS3, you really do need a hi-def telly to appreciate the new consoles, the games just dont look that spectacular on normal tellies....maybe nintendo can pull it off after all

 

[ChrisFilter]

That's what I'm thinking.. PS3 and 360 have got too far ahead of themselves. Normal people who've upgraded to lcd or plasma screen TVs in the last couple of years aren't going to make the jump to HD yet.

 

[tommers]

That's what I'm thinking.. PS3 and 360 have got too far ahead of themselves. Normal people who've upgraded to lcd or plasma screen TVs in the last couple of years aren't going to make the jump to HD yet.

we've just bought a HD ready tv, will we be able to use the shiny bits of a 360 or PS3?

 

[ChrisFilter]

Yep

 

[tommers]

Yep

just with the console?

or do we need £300 worth of extra equipment, like we do to watch BBC HD1?

 

[Strawman]

just with the console.

Youll need to attach your 360 to your TV with a component cable though (provided with the premium version) and manually switch the 360's dashboard to 720p or 1080i.

Same with the PS3 when it comes out, although that also has the option to connect via HDMI cable.

 

[ChrisFilter]

Just with the console afaik

 

[tommers]

just with the console.

Youll need to attach your 360 to your TV with a component cable though (provided with the premium version) and manually switch the 360's dashboard to 720p or 1080i.

Same with the PS3 when it comes out, although that also has the option to connect via HDMI cable.

cool.

still... an extra rather than a main reason to get one. will it really make that much difference?

 

[The Groke]

cool.

still... an extra rather than a main reason to get one. will it really make that much difference?

Going back to playing PS2 games on my 32" HD telly after playing something at 720p on the 360, you do really notice the difference in clarity and sharpness.

 

[Sunray]

I have just pre-ordered my Wii from HMV together with Zelda, the main reason for buying the console.

Don't have a HD tv and have a 36" tv that I am very happy with and untill HD is more common I'm not going to replace. Only got a slightly naff 28" Tosh w/s in my room so the Wii normal TV is fine and I don't really think the graphics are that important to great game play.

 

[Strawman]

ahh the old graphics vs gameplay thing.

Of course gameplay wins every time but lets face it, graphics are very important too for immersion and realism. Believe me Sunray, the 360 looks feckin marvellous on a hi-def telly.

I still wish the Wii had the same gfx power as 360 and PS3, I sooo want a hi-def pikmin

 

[Sunray]

I've been enjoying the Cube just recently.

What games are there on the XB360 that force me to get one? I don't have an HDTV as I don't watch TV (and have a great 36" CRT TV) so that outlay would be for the console alone.

I'm looking at 600 for the TV and 300 for the console and the odd game. The Wii is 212 for Zelda and the console.

You work that out.

 

[Jambooboo]

I've been enjoying the Cube just recently.

What games are there on the XB360 that force me to get one? I don't have an HDTV as I don't watch TV (and have a great 36" CRT TV) so that outlay would be for the console alone.

I'm looking at 600 for the TV and 300 for the console and the odd game. The Wii is 212 for Zelda and the console.

You work that out.

A decent HD tv can be had for a couple of hundred quid if you shop around (such as this Sammy). A good spec similar-sized LCD monitor can be had for less than that (such as this Acer). Either will give you stunning 720p/1080i.

PS3 and 360 have got too far ahead of themselves. Normal people who've upgraded to lcd or plasma screen TVs in the last couple of years aren't going to make the jump to HD yet.

Pretty much all LCD and Plasmas sold over the past few years will have been HD ready. In all but the the most basic sets, the two are pretty much synonymous.


AFAIC Nintendo has lost that 'golden touch' that they had in the early 90's with inhouse games, and the major developers of that time (eg your Square/Capcom/Konami) have jumped ship.

 

[ChrisFilter]

They might have done, but I think they're set to regain it with the Wii. It's got a lot of people interested, far more so than the 360 or the PS3 which is just 'same shit, better graphics'.

I can't wait, it's got me re-interested in computer games.

I have a 19" widescreen TFT that's HD ready, will use that for the Wii I think - already use it for MediaCenter.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

I've been enjoying the Cube just recently.

What games are there on the XB360 that force me to get one? I don't have an HDTV as I don't watch TV (and have a great 36" CRT TV) so that outlay would be for the console alone.

I'm looking at 600 for the TV and 300 for the console and the odd game. The Wii is 212 for Zelda and the console.

You work that out.

Easy. Keep my Cube, buy Zelda and not pay £180 for the privelge of swinging a remote control about. Total cost; £40 max.

 

[Crispy]

It's worth all the money in the world if it means I can play videogames with my gf.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

It's worth all the money in the world if it means I can play videogames with my gf.

Wont she play unless the controller looks like a DVD remote?!

*avoids the obvious freudian jokes*

 

[ChrisFilter]

Same with my girlfriend.. no interest at all until she saw the videos of people playing Wii Sports.

I'm a bit lost as to why you're not excited about 'the next step' in interaction - it looks amazing fun!

 

[bmd]

A decent HD tv can be had for a couple of hundred quid if you shop around (such as this Sammy). A good spec similar-sized LCD monitor can be had for less than that (such as this Acer). Either will give you stunning 720p/1080i.

The LCD Acer you've linked to isn't a HD monitor, not sure if you're saying it is but you do say -

Pretty much all LCD and Plasmas sold over the past few years will have been HD ready. In all but the the most basic sets, the two are pretty much synonymous.