Yet more horrors in Iraq

[Giles]

200 people.

That is everybody on my street. Dead.

Not to mention the 'Collateral Damage' from the explosions.



The US is incompetent at Government. The inner cities of most US cities resemble Iraq anyway.

That is something of an exaggeration, surely?

Giles..

 

[Giles]

what do you mean "let 'em sort it out themselves"?? they didn't create the problem, the US did. once you open pandora's box then you must suffer the consequences.

and I love the way the US authorities are blaming all the violence on the Iraqis, saying that they can't control or govern their own people. what a bunch of bullshit

This view that "its all America's fault" implies that many, many people in Iraq were just frustrated killers, who were only kept at bay by Saddam's iron fist, and that the US should have known that removing Saddam would unleash these monsters to bomb, torture and shoot their countrymen, their neighbours, their neighobur's children.

Are these people not morally the same as Westerners then? Do they need to be restrained by threat of force from their desires to go out and kill indiscriminately? If so, whose job is that then?

Was a ruler like Saddam the best thing for such people?

Now that he is dead, what should happen? Should the Americans and the Brits etc, just get the fuck out and let them do what they want? Or something else?

Giles..

 

[Detroit City]

Was a ruler like Saddam the best thing for such people?

of course he was...

 

[Yossarian]

This view that "its all America's fault" implies that many, many people in Iraq were just frustrated killers, who were only kept at bay by Saddam's iron fist, and that the US should have known that removing Saddam would unleash these monsters to bomb, torture and shoot their countrymen, their neighbours, their neighobur's children.

There have been reports - which I find easy to believe - that Bush wasn't even aware that there were different sects of Islam until only just before the US invasion of Iraq. That'd be like Woodrow Wilson making plans to liberate Ireland from the British Empire while being unaware that there was the potential for conflict between Catholic and Protestant.

With a level of ignorance and incompetence that high in the planning for invasion and occupation, then of course all the sectarian bloodshed in Iraq since 2003 is the fault of the Americans and their British butlers.

 

[Giles]

With a level of ignorance and incompetence that high in the planning for invasion and occupation, then of course all the sectarian bloodshed in Iraq since 2003 is the fault of the Americans and their British butlers.

So these people are just like animals, with base instincts that make them kill each other, unless a big guy with a bigger gun stands in between them and says he will kill either of them that attacks? It's not their fault at all? I don't buy this.....

Giles..

 

[Yossarian]

So these people are just like animals, with base instincts that make them kill each other

A bit like Europeans in 1914?

People are inclined to come into conflict with each other, particularly when religious and ethnic divisions exist, and where authoritarian rule that had previosuly held them together comes to an end. This has been seen many, many times in history all over the world and the morons behind the invasion and occupation of Iraq have blood on their hands for being too stupid to anticipate this happening there and prepare for it adequately.

 

[Detroit City]

A bit like Europeans in 1914?

and europeans in WWII, ahhaahahahahaha

we won't even mention the major european conflicts prior to 20th century

 

[Detroit City]

With a level of ignorance and incompetence that high in the planning for invasion and occupation, then of course all the sectarian bloodshed in Iraq since 2003 is the fault of the Americans and their British butlers.

agreed...

 

[Giles]

A bit like Europeans in 1914?

People are inclined to come into conflict with each other, particularly when religious and ethnic divisions exist, and where authoritarian rule that had previosuly held them together comes to an end. This has been seen many, many times in history all over the world and the morons behind the invasion and occupation of Iraq have blood on their hands for being too stupid to anticipate this happening there and prepare for it adequately.

That was rather different. The problem there was that the people in charge pushed for war.

The fighting, when it came, was organised and on a huge and horrific scale. But it was different to what is happening in Iraq. I'll bet the Yanks wish that there was an "organised" enemy for them to take on, because if there was, they could crush them.

There wasn't the insane murderous hatred that makes someone drive a car full of explosives into a marketplace full of women and kids and blow themselves up.

These people cannot be reasoned with any more than the aliens off "Aliens". I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

Giles..

 

[Detroit City]

There wasn't the insane murderous hatred that makes someone drive a car full of explosives into a marketplace full of women and kids and blow themselves up.

so the dropping of two thermo-nuclear bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki by the US in WWII is not classified as "insane murderous hatred"??

and the mass genocide of Jews by Hitler is not "insane murderous hatred"??

 

[fela fan]

Should the Americans and the Brits etc, just get the fuck out and let them do what they want? Or something else?

Giles..

The question remains, who do the americans and british think they are?

Such arrogant tossers really, with no regard for life, just for their power games.

Wait till they go into iran, then see the world in flames. I can't wait for this murderous empire to crumble into its own ashes.

 

[Detroit City]

Wait till they go into iran, then see the world in flames.

may be time to get me asbestos suit out of storage

 

[fela fan]

This has been seen many, many times in history all over the world and the morons behind the invasion and occupation of Iraq have blood on their hands for being too stupid to anticipate this happening there and prepare for it adequately.

It's actually most likely they knew full well what would happen mate. But human lives are not of their concern. They just want the control of the resources...

 

[Detroit City]

It's actually most likely they knew full well what would happen mate. But human lives are not of their concern. They just want the control of the resources...

right

 

[fela fan]

right

There is of course all sorts of evidence of this, not least the mammoth new US embassy in baghdad...!

And the US has displayed zero care for human lives in its history when it comes to playing their power games.

And they got that off the british who themselves were not averse to massacring people who happened to get in their arrogant way.

 

[Detroit City]

And the US has displayed zero care for human lives in its history when it comes to playing their power games.

And they got that off the british who themselves were not averse to massacring people who happened to get in their arrogant way.

Agreed, but every regime that has ever ruled the world has done that...

 

[fela fan]

Agreed, but every regime that has ever ruled the world has done that...

Most true, but nowadays the difference is that the stupidity of man can kill his species off. And that therefore calls for the intelligent side of man to do all it can to balance out the stupid side. The latter took a giant stride forward upon the beginning of the bush era. Those neo-cons are the most frightening and insane group of people that it is possible to be.

But equally as frightening is that the checks and balances built into the US constitution are not working. No, more frightening. The american people and the american media are failing in their duty to reign in their criminal elites.

And if, as seems most likely, the stupid fuckers blunder their way into iran, just watch the world then...

The american people, and the british people, have been asleep for too long, and i fear won't wake up in time.

 

[TAE]

This view that "its all America's fault" implies that many, many people in Iraq were just frustrated killers, who were only kept at bay by Saddam's iron fist, and that the US should have known that removing Saddam would unleash these monsters to bomb, torture and shoot their countrymen, their neighbours, their neighobur's children.

Given what had already happened in the former Yugoslavia, I think the US should have thought long and hard about how they would handle the iraqi situation. It should have been obvious that many people in Iraq would either have scores to settle and/or would have a vested interest in making a new iraqi government unable to rule them and/or would see the change as an opportunity to further their own agenda. But it seems the US government just expected everyone to cheer and settle down.

 

[TAE]

There wasn't the insane murderous hatred that makes someone drive a car full of explosives into a marketplace full of women and kids and blow themselves up.

Do you have any idea what the russian troops did to the german female poplation in early 1945 ?

 

[Giles]

so the dropping of two thermo-nuclear bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki by the US in WWII is not classified as "insane murderous hatred"??

and the mass genocide of Jews by Hitler is not "insane murderous hatred"??

The former, no.

The latter, yes. But its still not the same. What seems to be happening in Iraq seems horribly spontaneous.

Giles..

 

[Giles]

Do you have any idea what the russian troops did to the german female poplation in early 1945 ?

Yes.

But these were soldiers who had fought and survived an all-out brutal war against an enemy who had committed atrocities against them and their countrymen on a horrific scale. (not that this morally justifies what they did).

What I find scary about the situation in Iraq is the way that people seem to go and kill their neighbours - people they KNOW, have lived with for years. And all of this to no purpose - just to fuck things up even more. There is no end in sight. At least in WW2 the Russians had a sane cause - to absolutely defeat the hated Nazis.

Giles..

 

[likesfish]

bush's plan was we remove the murderous tyrant Saddam Iraqi's will be greatful and get one with fixing the place jobs a good un.
there was just one tiny flaw as captain blackadder woulds say it was bollocks.
sunni's had done well under saddam and lost all there power
like most tyrannys place did'nt actually function in any sane manner

 

[Barking_Mad]

Yes.

But these were soldiers who had fought and survived an all-out brutal war against an enemy who had committed atrocities against them and their countrymen on a horrific scale. (not that this morally justifies what they did).

And large sections of the Iraqi population weren't subjected to Saddam's brutality and that of the ruling Sunni minority? Violence begets violence.

What I find scary about the situation in Iraq is the way that people seem to go and kill their neighbours - people they KNOW, have lived with for years.

This is largely untrue. You use the word 'neighbour' as if they are walking round to the house next door and shooting people, when clearly this isn't the case. What is being seen are death squads from various groups, both government, Mahdi Army and others (maybe US backed, maybe 'Al Qaeda') appearing in neighbourhoods and informing the ethnic group in the minority to move out or face execution.
And all of this to no purpose - just to fuck things up even more. There is no end in sight. At least in WW2 the Russians had a sane cause - to absolutely defeat the hated Nazis.

 

[fela fan]

But it seems the US government just expected everyone to cheer and settle down.

But the US government didn't really care either way what the iraqi people did upon their illegal invasion of the country. They were there purely for the resources, and more importantly the control of them, and as far as loss of lives might go they have proven time after time they give not a jot about such minor inconveniences.

They are amoral and deaths are simply part of their chess game of power and the pursuance of it.

Someone once said, maybe here on urban can't remember, imagine you are on the 50th floor looking down at all the tiny dots of people and the dinky cars, and you drop something and it falls onto one of those dots. It would be difficult to feel bad in terms of the death of a person, simply because of the perspective one is in. I think the likes of these terrorists in charge of the US have adopted this kind of perspective for their constant reality.

 

[TAE]

What I find scary about the situation in Iraq is the way that people seem to go and kill their neighbours - people they KNOW, have lived with for years.

That happened in former Yugoslavia.

But the US government didn't really care either way what the iraqi people did upon their illegal invasion of the country.

I think the US government wanted/expected a stable pro-western nation to emerge.

 

[Detroit City]

I think the US government wanted/expected a stable pro-western nation to emerge.

hahaha....the "installation" of friendly governments has always backfired on the US. Yet, they still keep at it.

 

[warren]

They also control the ban button too and have ordered me to give you a 24 hour ban for blatant anti Semitism.

How about following these steps:

1) Getting a sense of humour.

2) Try realising the sense of irony of your comment in a thread where a commenter compares the Irgun to al-Qaeda and thus attacking Israel in a thread about a massacre in Iraq.

3) Perhaps realising when people use Zionists instead of Jews on your little forum it could be a cover for their anti-semitism.

4) Realising that you are a complete fuckwit.

 

[Ned Pointsman]

2) Try realising the sense of irony of your comment in a thread where a commenter compares mindless killers to mindless killers and thus attacking mindless killers in a thread about mindless killing.

FYP HTH HAND.

3) Perhaps realising when people use Zionists instead of Jews on your little forum it could be a cover for their anti-semitism.

Ooooooh, the reverse straw man, I'd say 'clever' but it's not.