Yet another woman cyclist killed by a lorry

[Diamond]

Yeah, it's no guarantee that you'll maintain the standards set in that test.

I'm sure if I took the driving test tomorrow I, like most other drivers on the roads, would probably fail.

But not to have any kind of test at all for cyclists is downright negligent to all road users.

The worst thing when you're cycling is slowing for red lights or zebra crossings and then getting idiot cyclists admonish you as they speed past.

 

[ericjarvis]

Some years back I was put through the railings at the Kennington end of Brixton Road by a Newsflow truck. The bastard pulled up alongside me at a red light. Then when we pulled away at the green he completely cut across the corner. He knew I was there when he pulled up. He'd completely forgotten a few seconds later when the light went green.

Left me pretty much bed ridden for 6 months. Driver initially claimed to the police he'd not seen a cyclist and had pulled up at the other side of the junction because he heard a noise and thought his load had shifted. The police declined to prosecute as they considered that a reasonable explanation. The ten or so people who saw it happen all fucked off and never came forward as witnesses. Then when I tried to prosecute privately, Newsflow produced paperwork purporting to prove they had no truck in the area, and the Met claimed they had no record of the incident.

That's why truck drivers kill cyclists. They can get away with it because their employers and the police consider it more important that their insurance premiums are kept down than that cyclists can survive on the road.

Whilst it remains the case that the policing and legal system in this country considers money more important than people, and whilst the majority of people don't give a shit about what happens so long as they don't have to get involved, then one hell of a lot of things will remain unnecessarily dangerous.

 

[gentlegreen]

The worst thing when you're cycling is slowing for red lights or zebra crossings and then getting idiot cyclists admonish you as they speed past.

Reading on here about London traffic has made me wary of traffic lights as a cyclist. I may not plough through red- or even amber - lights, but I have an escape plan for if following motorists expect me to. And at my aforementioned set of lights, I stay well back until the madness has ended - I rarely meet other cyclists brave enough to even tackle them.

 

[Diamond]

But you shouldn't need to worry about stopping at them anyway. If you select the right gear as you slow down, you will always be far quicker over the first twenty metres than anything else on the road.

However if you're coming up to packed red lights you have to be exceptionally aware of anyone who's turning in any direction and either get well ahead of them at the front or lag well behind them.

 

[jusali]

I think once you're in that metal box, be it a car lorry van or bus, you lose any compassion you would otherwise have if you were outside of it. It's like being in some kind of time capsule where your senses are numbed and frustration overides all sense of reasonable behaviour.
People really need to be reminded of the fact that driving is in fact a priviledge not a necessity and should drive with respect and concern for other road users. The law should be upheld with a lot tougher sentencing for poor road craft and more coppers (not cameras) should be supplied to enforce this.
Unfortunately like the law( and in general in Britain) Human life and well being have become secondary to monetary concerns.
RIP 26 yr old bird.

 

[Lemon Eddy]

I reckon that all cyclists should be made to pass the full driving license test.

The difference between my friends who cycle and have passed that test and those who have not taken it is enormous.

You reckon all cyclists should take the full driving test.

The full driving test, funnily enough, is designed to test how well you drive. Sitting that if you intend to cycle seems mind numbingly misplaced. Considering that cyclists also include lots of people under the age of 17, and it also seems mind numbingly stupid.

Personally though, I think some sort of basic CBT for cyclists would be a great idea. However, I'd also require that all drivers sit it too, and be registered as cyclists for at least 1 year before they can get a provisional driving license.

 

[Lemon Eddy]

And also, to suggest that HGV are deliberately setting out to kill cyclists is remarkably stupid.

You have one group of road users responsible for 82% of cyclist fatalities in an area. So, you tell me. Are they intentionally doing it, or just fucking incompetent?

 

[Biddlybee]

Incompetent.... I still don't get why you think it's intentional?

Don't agree that cyclists should all have to sit a driving test... but I reckon a cyclist who can also drive is a bit more aware of what's going on on the road.

 

[gentlegreen]

But you shouldn't need to worry about stopping at them anyway. If you select the right gear as you slow down, you will always be far quicker over the first twenty metres than anything else on the road.

I'm guessing you do your cycling in a small market town in the shires where the cars are driven by old ladies and vicars ?

 

[Diamond]

You reckon all cyclists should take the full driving test.

The full driving test, funnily enough, is designed to test how well you drive. Sitting that if you intend to cycle seems mind numbingly misplaced. Considering that cyclists also include lots of people under the age of 17, and it also seems mind numbingly stupid.

Personally though, I think some sort of basic CBT for cyclists would be a great idea. However, I'd also require that all drivers sit it too, and be registered as cyclists for at least 1 year before they can get a provisional driving license.

So you reckon that it's good idea for drivers to take a cycling CBT so they understand how cyclists think but there's no good reason for cyclists to take the full driving test so they understand how drivers (the vast majority of road users) think?

Do you not see the contradiction there?

 

[Diamond]

You have one group of road users responsible for 82% of cyclist fatalities in an area. So, you tell me. Are they intentionally doing it, or just fucking incompetent?

Do you have some sort of vision of HGV drivers sitting in their truckers' caffs deviously plotting how to knock off more cyclists?

 

[Diamond]

I'm guessing you do your cycling in a small market town in the shires where the cars are driven by old ladies and vicars ?

Central London mainly, where the traffic is very slow indeed. Probably slower than that in a market town in the shires.

 

[stupid dogbot]

i think you should suck my dick

What a grown up answer.

 

[yojimbo]

Any time the police do a spot check of HGVs they find a host of problems, whether it be talking on a mobile while driving, uninsured, overloaded, working longer hours than the legal limit, etc etc. Lethal collisions are the natural result of letting HGV drivers get away with breaking all the rules.

I've written to the Mayor and TfL about this and been basically told it's a matter of police resources. I don't know what the police attitude is, but it seems as though currently they don't care, or just don't care enough to put the time and resources into monitoring - so somehow we have to make them.

 

[hegley]

On the one hand you've got a group of people who have had to learn the highway code and learn how motor vehicle drivers think on the road, and on the other you have people who have very little idea about drivers' intentions in any given situation.

I take it you're not being entirely serious with this point? "Learn how motor vehicle drivers think on the road?" Yes, because vehicle drivers all think exactly the same, drive in the same manner, make the same decisions etc etc.

 

[Diamond]

I take it you're not being entirely serious with this point? "Learn how motor vehicle drivers think on the road?" Yes, because vehicle drivers all think exactly the same, drive in the same manner, make the same decisions etc etc.

What part of what I wrote suggests a homogeneity to drivers' thinking?

 

[Lemon Eddy]

So you reckon that it's good idea for drivers to take a cycling CBT so they understand how cyclists think but there's no good reason for cyclists to take the full driving test so they understand how drivers (the vast majority of road users) think?

Do you not see the contradiction there?

Oh fuck me. Once more for the hard of thinking.

I think it makes eminent sense to have a CBT for bicyclists. I think this can be achieved without preventing younger people from being able to cycle around.

I also think it'd be good to require all drivers to have sat this CBT at least a year before they can apply for a provisional. That way, you will encourage more people to cycle (which I think is a fucking good thing) and also make sure car drivers have greater road experience prior to passing their test, and are also more aware of the risks for cyclists.

I do not see the requirements for using a bicycle and using a car as equivalent, for fairly fucking obvious reasons. A car is far more dangerous if used badly. A car driver is far more likely to kill a cyclist than vice versa. Thus I think the standard required to be allowed to use a car should be higher than the standard required to use a bicycle.

If you see a contradiction there, you are an idiot. If you think it's a good idea to prevent children from cycling (as requiring people to pass a driving test first would do) you are an idiot. If you think cars and bicycles pose the same risk to other road users, you are an idiot.

 

[Lemon Eddy]

Do you have some sort of vision of HGV drivers sitting in their truckers' caffs deviously plotting how to knock off more cyclists?

You tell me. I will repeat my question once more - lorry drivers accounted for 82% of cyclist fatalities in London last year. Do you think that's because they are inherently fucking dangerous, or because they're doing it on purpose.

 

[Cid]

Are you trying to claim that cyclists are able to keep themselves safe from HGD drivers just by watching out?

If so, you are a fucking idiot. There are literally dozens on incidents from the last few years where lorry drivers have killed cyclists in a manner that the cyclist could do fuck all about. Here's a very brief sample:

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/Lorry-driver-killed-cyclist-in.5629633.jp
http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/n...ing-crash/article-1319209-detail/article.html
http://www.movingtargetzine.com/article/cyclist-killing-lorry-driver-fined-300
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...yclist+killed+by+lorry/article.do?expand=true

All of those would have been prevented if the cycles stayed clear of the lorries. That is not to say that the fault wasn't with the drivers, or that they shouldn't have been prosecuted, but none would have happened if the cyclists had had even the most basic of training. I remember at primary school we had a safety lesson, the first thing we learned was to never get between a lorry and a railing, never to go on the inside of a lorry and to always make sure you had plenty of space. This was more than 15 years ago. I take lots of risks when cycling, but I always stay well away from any large vehicles, just sensible really.

 

[hegley]

What part of what I wrote suggests a homogeneity to drivers' thinking?

It would be a bit tricky to teach people "how drivers think on the road" if there wasn't some degree of homogeneity involved, no?

 

[big eejit]

My boss was almost killed when the driver of scaffolding lorry decided to swerve into the bus / motorbike / cycle lane. She was on a moped and ended up with his lorry parked on her chest. If she hadn't been in full leathers she would have been killed - they act to hold the body together. As it was she was off work for months with loads of painful bone and skin graft operations. Many of these people chuck their lorries round like they're toys. They are dangerous morons.

I saw some research about why more females. I think it was to do with being more cautious, not as in your face as male cyclists / motorcyclists. So next time you see a cyclist 'hogging the road' he's probably just trying to stay alive.

 

[Orang Utan]

it's a bad day - someone got hit my a cement truck in poynders road (brixton/clapham) today
http://www.londonfgss.com/thread29730.html

 

[Diamond]

It would be a bit tricky to teach people "how drivers think on the road" if there wasn't some degree of homogeneity involved, no?

There's a set of rules and techniques that they are taught and employ when driving with varying results. Knowing about those rules and techniques helps you to anticipate in given situations what a given driver is likely to do.

That is clearly not the same as saying as that they're all one monothought clique.

 

[Treacle Toes]

So next time you see a cyclist 'hogging the road' he's probably just trying to stay alive.

Get a grip!!!!

 

[Diamond]

All of those would have been prevented if the cycles stayed clear of the lorries. That is not to say that the fault wasn't with the drivers, or that they shouldn't have been prosecuted, but none would have happened if the cyclists had had even the most basic of training. I remember at primary school we had a safety lesson, the first thing we learned was to never get between a lorry and a railing, never to go on the inside of a lorry and to always make sure you had plenty of space. This was more than 15 years ago. I take lots of risks when cycling, but I always stay well away from any large vehicles, just sensible really.

This is so important and is often a good example of non-drivers not really knowing what the effect of a blindspot on a vehicle really is or how it operates to create an illusion.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

it's a bad day - someone got hit my a cement truck in poynders road (brixton/clapham) today
http://www.londonfgss.com/thread29730.html

That's from the London Fixed Gear and Single Speed forum - i know this will cause many to start frothing at the mouth but the way that most people ride those bikes, I'm surprised they don't go under lorries more often tbf. I have almost been hit by idiots on fixies more times that I care to mention, both on my bike and on foot.

 

[Orang Utan]

i often overtake cyclists at junctions who seem to be going about it in alarmingly dangerous way. they go as far to the left as possible instead of going in a straight line across the junction. this means when they get off the junction they have to sway to the right, into the path of any traffic. ime they do seem to be women a lot. i have no idea why this might be so. women are smaller and less visible too, obviously, but that makes the need for them to make themselves more visible all the more pressing.

 

[Orang Utan]

That's from the London Fixed Gear and Single Speed forum - i know this will cause many to start frothing at the mouth but the way that most people ride those bikes, I'm surprised they don't go under lorries more often tbf. I have almost been hit by idiots on fixies more times that I care to mention, both on my bike and on foot.

maybe, but i don't think this means that the accident didn't happen

eta the reason i got that link was cos i once signed up to their forum to complain about an alleycat race they'd organised where one cyclist nearly knocked me off his bike as he came round the entrance of a tunnel in vauxhall at a ridiculous speed and without looking

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

maybe, but i don't think this means that the accident didn't happen

No I know that, and it's sad that someone else has got mashed - my point was that many of the people riding that particular variety of bicycle are often the most reckless and dangerous, in part at least because of the nature of the cycle they are riding encouraging them not to stop at junctions, lights, ped crossings etc etc.

 

[gentlegreen]

So next time you see a cyclist 'hogging the road' he's probably just trying to stay alive.

Get a grip!!!!

I fail to see how that's funny.

"hogging the road" is a key part of my own strategy.