Yes Yes!! Its Boris

[frogwoman]

ah fuck it, i cant find anything. i'll edit my post.

 

[Knotted]

I'm not ken's biggest fan, but i'd rather have him running london, if i lived there, than a racist tory who does not even live there and knows very little about the place, and who'se claim to fame is just being "controversial", being on tv, and having silly hair.

Oh don't worry, I had no intention of voting Boris to get Ken out. Almost the other way round. Almost.

and, in fairness to ken, he's not saying that they should definately bomb belgrade but just not "dismiss (the idea) out of hand". he doesn't appear to me to be endorsing the military action wholeheartedly. and it was an opinion which, while IMO was absolutely despicalbe and wrong, was shared by pretty much everyone in parliament including the tories. due to our failure to protect people in bosnia and due to the obvious human rights abuses taking place - human rights abuses which were accelerated by the Nato campaign and used in their propaganda - supporting that war is somewhat more understandable than the iraq war.

I've confused the issue a bit. He was definately for the Balkans war. It was just Iraq where he was ambivalent - for a time at least. But its more his reasoning than his position that's revealing.

many people thought that the Nato bombing was justified, a lot more than who thought iraq was justified, and it's still quite "controversial" to express sympathy for the serb civilians who were killed by Nato and cast doubt on the operation's legitimacy. i don't think it was right but i think we're in a minority, of far fewer people than who opposed the iraq war.

Tell me about it!

the fact that he was "proved wrong" in the military actions against Iraq and Serbia aren't a reason to vote for Boris. ken isn't a war loving cunt, he doesn't consistently support illegal wars like the NL leadership and boris's party do.

I don't think Ken would see himself as being proved wrong on either action.

what was boris's opinion on bombing belgrade - anyone know? if he opposed it, i would be EXTREMELY surprised

I don't know, but I wouldn't be so surprised if he opposed it. Alan Clarke and a few other Tory right wingers opposed it on the grounds that it wasn't worth the risk to British soldiers. Kosovo was a crusade for the centre-left just as Iraq is a crusade for the centre-right.

 

[frogwoman]

Oh don't worry, I had no intention of voting Boris to get Ken out. Almost the other way round. Almost.

I've confused the issue a bit. He was definately for the Balkans war. It was just Iraq where he was ambivalent - for a time at least. But its more his reasoning than his position that's revealing.

Tell me about it!

I don't think Ken would see himself as being proved wrong on either action.

I don't know, but I wouldn't be so surprised if he opposed it. Alan Clarke and a few other Tory right wingers opposed it on the grounds that it wasn't worth the risk to British soldiers. Kosovo was a crusade for the centre-left just as Iraq is a crusade for the centre-right.

Good! I'm glad to hear you didn't vote for Boris

and yep, he says he opposed air strikes on Iraq - which is something, even if he later decided he was "wrong" because they "wouldnt work" but it was all ok in the end, coz they "broke the will of the Iraqi republican guard" so that's allright then

yep just read the next page and i saw that alan clark opposed it, and i know some tories did oppose the iraq war as well. it's proof that not all tories are bad !!

im not so sure about the source of support. a lot of the time it was the same people supporting the balkans war as supported the iraq war. a lot of the "pro-war left" like the same sort of clowns who wrote the euston manifesto supported the iraq war because of kosovo and the whole idea of "doing good in the world" and getting rid of an "evil dictator" - despite the fact that the evil dictator was removed from power by the serbs themselves (despite the fact they were collectively depicted as a nation of psychopaths) and if anything nato's actions increased his support and allowed him to stay in power longer.

i wonder what these people's reactions would be if russia or china decided to bomb cities in the UK for "humanitarian reasons" to make us get out of Iraq and as a "punishment" for going to war ... or coz we had weapons of mass destruction and had a track record of getting involved in wars that had nothing to do with us ...