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Wylfa B & another 200 Wind Turbines

what have i done to offend you?

Just because I dont think wind turbines are a nationalist issue makes you want to insult me.

get a grip.

go do something useful like spray paint over some signs so that when they come to build the turbines they won't know where to go.
 
Coal’s going as a means of electricity supply, which is excellent news for the climate.

The AGR nuclear fleet has done Stirling service long beyond the design life ( and the gave us the bombs ‘we’ wanted). But they won’t run forever.

We are really lucky with wind, but with current tech you can’t run a whole system with intermittent resources.

New nukes are way too expensive ( in many senses of the word) for anyone but governments to build. And you can’t turn them up or down anyway, they are on or off.

The new large combined cycle gas turbines (CCGT) are remarkably efficient, in the high 60 percents now- but still emit lots of CO2.

Demand side response DSR is great and we need more but you can’t build a system on turning stuff off.

Interconnector cables are good, and we are building more, but everyone else is facing similar problems. And not every one has our offshore wind potential.

Solar is good but doesn’t give us electricity during the peaks ( winter evenings).

Better hope The international fusion experiment in the south of France works ITR.

This sets out the questions we need to answer quit well...

https://assets.publishing.service.g...nt_data/file/654902/Cost_of_Energy_Review.pdf
 
A380 said:
New nukes are way too expensive ( in many senses of the word) for anyone but governments to build. And you can’t turn them up or down anyway, they are on or off.
Click to expand...

Untrue. Nuclear fission reactors *can* be throttled, they just just can't be throttled *quickly*. So they can respond to say, seasonal changes in demand but probably not daily changes. But for that sort of thing the UK has built places like Dinorwig Power Station, which is misnamed because doesn't it actually generate energy, instead it releases energy that's built up form other sources.

In any case, the fact that nuclear fission generates large and steady amounts of electricity is a *good* thing if we want to be able to keep the lights on without relying on the weather cooperating with our wishes.
 
NoXion said:
Untrue. Nuclear fission reactors *can* be throttled, they just just can't be throttled *quickly*. So they can respond to say, seasonal changes in demand but probably not daily changes. But for that sort of thing the UK has built places like Dinorwig Power Station, which is misnamed because doesn't it actually generate energy, instead it releases energy that's built up form other sources.

In any case, the fact that nuclear fission generates large and steady amounts of electricity is a *good* thing if we want to be able to keep the lights on without relying on the weather cooperating with our wishes.
Click to expand...
Technically you are right. But no one uses them like that.
 
A380 said:
Coal’s going as a means of electricity supply, which is excellent news for the climate.

The AGR nuclear fleet has done Stirling service long beyond the design life ( and the gave us the bombs ‘we’ wanted). But they won’t run forever.

We are really lucky with wind, but with current tech you can’t run a whole system with intermittent resources.

New nukes are way too expensive ( in many senses of the word) for anyone but governments to build. And you can’t turn them up or down anyway, they are on or off.

The new large combined cycle gas turbines (CCGT) are remarkably efficient, in the high 60 percents now- but still emit lots of CO2.

Demand side response DSR is great and we need more but you can’t build a system on turning stuff off.

Interconnector cables are good, and we are building more, but everyone else is facing similar problems. And not every one has our offshore wind potential.

Solar is good but doesn’t give us electricity during the peaks ( winter evenings).

Better hope The international fusion experiment in the south of France works ITR.

This sets out the questions we need to answer quit well...

https://assets.publishing.service.g...nt_data/file/654902/Cost_of_Energy_Review.pdf
Click to expand...

You didn't mention tidal lagoons.

And as for solar, won't its prospects alter radically once smart battery storage technology develops? :confused:

I don't really know the answer to the second point, but I'm sure someone on here is more clued up </non-scientist posting :o >
 
William of Walworth said:
You didn't mention tidal lagoons.

I don't really know the answer to the second point, but I'm sure someone on here is more clued up </non-scientist posting :oops: >
Click to expand...
Not does anyone else anywhere in the world...
No one wants tidal lagoons near then.
 
A380 said:
Coal’s going as a means of electricity supply, which is excellent news for the climate.

The AGR nuclear fleet has done Stirling service long beyond the design life ( and the gave us the bombs ‘we’ wanted). But they won’t run forever.

We are really lucky with wind, but with current tech you can’t run a whole system with intermittent resources.

New nukes are way too expensive ( in many senses of the word) for anyone but governments to build. And you can’t turn them up or down anyway, they are on or off.

The new large combined cycle gas turbines (CCGT) are remarkably efficient, in the high 60 percents now- but still emit lots of CO2.

Demand side response DSR is great and we need more but you can’t build a system on turning stuff off.

Interconnector cables are good, and we are building more, but everyone else is facing similar problems. And not every one has our offshore wind potential.

Solar is good but doesn’t give us electricity during the peaks ( winter evenings).

Better hope The international fusion experiment in the south of France works ITR.

This sets out the questions we need to answer quit well...

https://assets.publishing.service.g...nt_data/file/654902/Cost_of_Energy_Review.pdf
Click to expand...

Where does hydro / pumped hydro storage fit into this?
Apologies as I'm not about to read that document, t's way too long for early morning reading and probably too technical anyway :)
 
BigTom said:
Where does hydro / pumped hydro storage fit into this?
Apologies as I'm not about to read that document, t's way too long for early morning reading and probably too technical anyway :)
Click to expand...
Two different things. Pumped storage is a way of flatterning demand to make the system more efficient. Basically pump water up hill ( or air into salt caverns in therory) when there is a surplus of electricity and let it flow down hill when you need it. We have the big one at Dinorwic and some smaller ones. They are very expensive to build - we only have the big one as it was built to balence a nuclear power station tripping out - but they are very useful for balancing the system maybe we need one more, maybe... But even the biggest only run for about three hours. Think of them like the battery in a pure hybrid car, they make it more efficient but you still use petrol as your sole fuel.

Most New hydro is small scale free flow where you put distribution connected micro generation on rivers and it is good. But in the uk we don’t have many of the right kind of rivers near where people are. The massive hydro plants like Karriba, and the Hoover Dam aren’t runners here ( those kind of projects were more about water management anyway- the electricity was secondary- The Hoover power station for example is a medium size generator at most) . Even the Chinese had a bit of a public wobble with the Three Gorges. But Norway and Canada have lots. And there is a proposal for an interconnector to Norway so we can buy their hydro.
 
Last edited:
Cheers - I was under the impression Hydro gave lot of power, and that it was responsive like coal/gas plants, so could be an important part of the mix. I didn't realise that the big dams like Hoover and 3 Gorges were only medium generators.
 
A380 : you seem to know your tech in these matters, so when you've time, any thoughts on my earlier question about solar? :

William of Walworth said:
And as for solar, won't its prospects alter radically once smart battery storage technology develops? :confused:
Click to expand...

Thanks! :)
 
William of Walworth said:
A380 : you seem to know your tech in these matters, so when you've time, any thoughts on my earlier question about solar? :



Thanks! :)
Click to expand...
The main problem with electricity is that although people tend to think of it as a commodity it’s really not. You have to use it when you make it and balence the network in real time. We will definitely need more storage but there is no way you could store enough electricity to run the uk for more than a few hours. Dinorwig , which is basically an entire mountain is about equivalent to 1/30th of average GB energy use and, I think can keep that up for three perhaps four hours from full. It’s difficult to imagine how you would store enough energy to say cover a three or four day lull in wind using current technology.

On a separate issue. This is quite a cool site which shows about 90% of GN electricity production in real time ( and makes a good guess about the other generation). You can see the energy mix at any given time.

G. B. National Grid status

The thing to watch is the balence between wind and CCGT ( Big Gas) as the wind changes.
 
Last edited:
A380 said:
The main problem with electricity is that although people tend to think of it as a commodity it’s really not. You have to use it when you make it and balence the network in real time. We will definitely need more storage but there is no way you could store enough electricity to run the uk for more than a few hours. Dinorwig , which is basically an entire mountain is about equivalent to 1/30th of average GB energy use and, I think can keep that up for three perhaps four hours from full. It’s difficult to imagine how you would store enough energy to say cover a three or four day lull in wind using current technology.

On a separate issue. This is quite a cool site which shows about 90% of GN electricity production in real time ( and makes a good guess about the other generation). You can see the energy mix at any given time.

G. B. National Grid status

The thing to watch is the balence between wind and CCGT ( Big Gas) as the wind changes.
Click to expand...

Am I right in reading that site? It seems like the UK consumes between at least 20 to 30 gigawatts on a constant basis, that is, at all times of year, under all daylight and weather conditions.

That's a lot of windmills and solar panels.
 
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