Would you support revolutionary "criminals"

[Taxamo Welf]

Whatever the merits of blowing out some sinew and brain matter from a general. I just get the feeling that it comes from a idol worship of "rough trade". It reminds me of when i knew some middle class girls from the suburbs who delabate slept with black rastas cos they wanted to feel more "street" and be a part of a rough subculture. Which besides being patronizing and bonkers its a embarrassment.

You are ryazan and i claim my £5 in butter tokens.

I don't believe for a second ur m/c girls story its so fucking made up its totally bollocks.
''Tara i really want to shag a rasta, specifically a black one''
''Why's that samantha?''
''I want to feel more street and be part of a rough subculture you see''
''Jolly D!''

These utterly damning condemnations of the m/c - keep em coming. Its so true you see, we all hang around trying our hardest to ape people we think are edgy; i desperately to shag someone who looks exactly like vicky pollard personally.

 

[Taxamo Welf]

Doesn't take much . . .

yes mate, i've already done that joke, directly above your post in fact.
Well done you wit.

 

[Taxamo Welf]

i desperately want to shag a the kind of person who sells used travelcards for a living

really?

I stand corrected!

 

[Ratan]

You are ryazan and i claim my £5 in butter tokens.

I don't believe for a second ur m/c girls story its so fucking made up its totally bollocks.
''Tara i really want to shag a rasta, specifically a black one''
''Why's that samantha?''
''I want to feel more street and be part of a rough subculture you see''
''Jolly D!''

These utterly damning condemnations of the m/c - keep em coming. Its so true you see, we all hang around trying our hardest to ape people we think are edgy; i desperately to shag someone who looks exactly like vicky pollard personally.

I could not give a annekissed withered bedsheet if you believe me or not. It was common knowledge in manningham in the early 80s, and if your middle class guilt stops you from thinking its true who gives a frigg.

 

[Taxamo Welf]

I could not give a annekissed withered bedsheet if you believe me or not. It was common knowledge in manningham in the early 80s, and if your middle class guilt stops you from thinking its true who gives a frigg.

my m/c guilt stops me from believing that m/c girls want shag people out of m/c guilt? Of course!

Genius!

This calls for a tagline change.

 

[Taxamo Welf]

It was common knowledge in manningham in the early 80s

Big in japan?

 

[Ratan]

my m/c guilt stops me from believing that m/c girls want shag people out of m/c guilt? Of course!

Genius!

This calls for a tagline change.

I know you've been bummed to death by head pater at your Minor public school,but get this through your matted dreads. Pretty white girls m/c deliberately sought out so called dangerous rastas cos it gave them a taste of the "forbidden fruit".It to them was a political action against there upbringing. Its m/c guilt because it stops you from thinking that out in the big bad world your m c sisters do do nutty things like that.

 

[FifthFromFront]

What a stupid discussion to have on a board regularly read by the press and the police? If you want to know what ppl think do a private poll.

The whole point of it NOT being a poll is because it's not a yes/no answer. I was hoping people would give their reasons behind what they were thinking and those that have have given the thoughts behind tended to reach the same conclusion - to target Leaders would be supportable, targetting areas where others may get injured is not supportable or would only be supportable in a very different climate.

The reason I asked was because I've been reading again about Makhno and the group he was in before the revolution basically did rob the industrialists in the area and punish local police chiefs etc. From what I can tell though they didn't do over banks. I was comparing this to Sabate who did seem to rob banks as well

I know that the circumstances was different for Sabate, Makhno and present UK.

I'd hardly put say Makhno in the same league as some students excited about weapons in a pub.

FFF

 

[Taxamo Welf]

I know you've been bummed to death by head pater at your Minor public school,but get this through your matted dreads. Pretty white girls m/c deliberately sought out so called dangerous rastas cos it gave them a taste of the "forbidden fruit".It to them was a political action against there upbringing. Its m/c guilt because it stops you from thinking that out in the big bad world your m c sisters do do nutty things like that.

You just get better and better

edited to add: pater is latin for father, i have no idea what a head father is...? I wish i could speak latin its great.

 

[Pickman's model]

I know you've been bummed to death by head pater at your Minor public school,but get this through your matted dreads. Pretty white girls m/c deliberately sought out so called dangerous rastas cos it gave them a taste of the "forbidden fruit".It to them was a political action against there upbringing. Its m/c guilt because it stops you from thinking that out in the big bad world your m c sisters do do nutty things like that.

where was the edit?

 

[Pilgrim]

I'd hardly put say Makhno in the same league as some students excited about weapons in a pub. FFF

To be fair, the situation in which Makhno was active is hardly the same as ours today.

Although I can't help thinking that Makhno would probably either laugh or cry, looking at the shenanigans going on amid the British Left these days.

I'm not sure which to do myself sometimes.

 

[mk12]

Cry with laughter, it works for me.

 

[Ratan]

You just get better and better

edited to add: pater is latin for father, i have no idea what a head father is...? I wish i could speak latin its great.

Yes the head pater or the blond floppy fringed brute of the boarding school who sodomized delicate young sprogs of the middle class like you.

 

[Ratan]

where was the edit?

To add girls ,sir.

 

[Fong]

You put the scare quotes around the wrong word there! Your question should be:

Anyway, are assassination and bank robbery justified? There are circumstances in which those activities are justified, IMO - but those circumstances are clearly not here and now.

I dunno, I think you could make a strong case for bumping off a few CEOs and a few politicians right now.

 

[Ratan]

You just get better and better

edited to add: pater is latin for father, i have no idea what a head father is...? I wish i could speak latin its great.

Delving in to Tex's long buried memories.

 

[Ryazan]

You are ryazan and i claim my £5 in butter tokens.

I don't believe for a second ur m/c girls story its so fucking made up its totally bollocks.
''Tara i really want to shag a rasta, specifically a black one''
''Why's that samantha?''
''I want to feel more street and be part of a rough subculture you see''
''Jolly D!''

These utterly damning condemnations of the m/c - keep em coming. Its so true you see, we all hang around trying our hardest to ape people we think are edgy; i desperately to shag someone who looks exactly like vicky pollard personally.

I did have a 39 year old upper middle class woman coming onto me when I was 20. She scared the shit out of me. But she was quite tidy. Wish I had taken her up on her offer. Oh well.

*I am not a black rasta*

 

[editor]

I know you've been bummed to death by head pater at your

Unacceptable personal abuse.

Bit familiar for a new poster, aintcha?

 

[Chuck Wilson]

Unacceptable personal abuse.

Bit familiar for a new poster, aintcha?

It is and I believe that Childline would normally be the agency that would deal with this sort of issue.

 

[In Bloom]

Shouldn't some of you ask the working class what they think?

I wasn't aware we'd appointed a spokeman.

 

[Taxamo Welf]

unacceptable abuse? Bring it on - i'd be hurt if it was in any way true.

Back to revolutionary criminals:

Wasn't the moral of RAF and Brigatte(sp?) Rosse that they misjudged the political climate (which was far more confrontational then) and didn't really have much of an effect on wider social movements/were not held in acclaim by the w/c of those countries? Same with the weathermen. The issue of their class background is to me (what a surprise) not that relevant, as all the 1970's leftist militant groups did more or less the same thing, some more deadly than others and they had different class composition in each. The issue is how effective they were and whether the risks they took with their own lives (i care nothing for those they killed) were worth it.

In a related point the longstanding greek militants have finally been caught i heard. Good innings tho.

 

[Taxamo Welf]

I wasn't aware we'd appointed a spokeman.

*applauds*

 

[Ratan]

Whats more insulting being called a lier or a few throw away insults.?.

 

[CUMBRIANDRAGON]

I don't think I'd support violence full stop. Violence is generally only good for one thing - and that's creating more violence.

Civil disobedience is another matter. Ghandi was civilly disobedient.

Violence only creates more laws.

 

[FifthFromFront]

The issue is how effective they were and whether the risks they took with their own lives (i care nothing for those they killed) were worth it.
.

So your support would be dependant on how effective they are? OK thats fair enough but how do you judge effectiveness the only way I can see is with hindsight which would then prevent you supporting them till either afterwards or very late on - wouldn't it? Maybe not. I dunno.

But for instance Leon Czolgosz (if I've spealt that right I'll be happy!) assassinated President McKinley in the 1900's. He said he did it for working people and was not sorry for his "crime". But it wasn't at all effective really was it? I mean he did kill the president but it didn't achieve much. Personally I think he did quite well and would be supportive of that sort of thing but in the end he was tried and executed for it which would mean that you aren't supportive of it(??)

I can see your point and it's an interesting take on things but at the same time I'm trying to work out what it would and wouldn't support.

FFF

 

[FifthFromFront]

I don't think I'd support violence full stop. Violence is generally only good for one thing - and that's creating more violence.
.

what about self defence? couldn't topping the leaders be considered self defence?

FFF

 

[Taxamo Welf]

Violence only creates more laws.

Indeed; it depends how long your gameplan is, and whether the violence will definitely create new laws. If the perpetrator believes a revolution is coming or that their actions may precipitate a revolution, repressive legal measures aren't a factor.

I also wonder if outright assassination really would create new laws; say a leading general was carbombed, no leads and nobody claiming it. What would the new law be? Don't blow people up? I think thats already been covered somewhere...

 

[butchersapron]

unacceptable abuse? Bring it on - i'd be hurt if it was in any way true.

Back to revolutionary criminals:

Wasn't the moral of RAF and Brigatte(sp?) Rosse that they misjudged the political climate (which was far more confrontational then) and didn't really have much of an effect on wider social movements/were not held in acclaim by the w/c of those countries? Same with the weathermen. The issue of their class background is to me (what a surprise) not that relevant, as all the 1970's leftist militant groups did more or less the same thing, some more deadly than others and they had different class composition in each. The issue is how effective they were and whether the risks they took with their own lives (i care nothing for those they killed) were worth it.

In a related point the longstanding greek militants have finally been caught i heard. Good innings tho.

The Red Brigades and the RAF were very very different things, they shouldn't really be presented as generic examples of left-wing terrorism. The Red Brigades arose from factory workers initiatives against immediate local bosses and formen and developed their own practical logic from that point on. The RAF developed out of their own pathological disatisfation, arrogance and elitism and had fuck all connection with any wider class based movement - the contexts in which their violence developed was also very different. Italy was in a state of near insurrection from the mid-late 60s onwards, Germany never appraoched being in the same siutation and this was one of the reasons for the RAFs embrace of armed substitutionism - their frustration and contempt at the stupid german proles.


What Greeks? The N11th? They were caught a few years back. The leader being the son of a very famous trot leader.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

The leader being the son of a very famous trot leader.

Raptis/Pablo was by far the most famous Greek Trotskyist, I suppose. Are you talking about his son by any chance?

On the more general point of the thread - individual terrorism doesn't fucking work. In fact it's counterproductive. How often do some people need to be told?

 

[butchersapron]

Nah it was Witte (real name Demitris Giotopoulos) strong man of the Archeiomarxists. (Ok not that well known).

http://www.revolutionary-history.co.uk/backiss/Vol3/No3/ECCI.html
http://www.revolutionary-history.co.uk/backiss/Vol3/No3/Archeio.html