scifisam
deleted
Oops, sorry, I missed that
Oh, I was just pointing out that I had also had the good idea that you had. Though perhaps moomoo had already had it too.
Would you let your 17 year old daughter travel alone?
- Thread starter moomoo
- Start date
Oh, I was just pointing out that I had also had the good idea that you had. Though perhaps moomoo had already had it too.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Oh, I was just pointing out that I had also had the good idea that you had. Though perhaps moomoo had already had it too.
Yep, I guess I was just remembering back to when I was 17 ... that was the first time that I'd actually been abroad at all though. Just a package holiday with my b/f. My folks seemed quite laid back about it, it was his that seemed to have reservations. It was fine, but it was very straightforward cos it was a package with a tour rep and everything. I'm not sure that I'd have had the same amount of confidence if I'd have been on my own plus doing more complicated stuff plus going to trickier countries.
trashpony
Hag
I think the trust point (ie whether moomoo trusts her daughter) is relevant actually. Trust in the sense of does she trust her to be able to be at airports on time, get a sensible cab rather than a dodgy one, not put herself into potentially dangerous situations because she is naive enough not to realise that she's putting herself at risk.
I don't know about this tbh - I would probably do what jc2 suggests and see if you/she can find a cheaper way to get to SA which doesn't involve travelling via Egypt!
I don't know about this tbh - I would probably do what jc2 suggests and see if you/she can find a cheaper way to get to SA which doesn't involve travelling via Egypt!
Blimey. My parents must have been careless, heartless sods or something.
17 and I was happily tripping over to the Caribbean and South America myself. In mitigation I was probably fairly streetwise - having to travel 6 miles to school since the start of secondary school and travelling with lots of sports tours probably helped.
17 and I was happily tripping over to the Caribbean and South America myself. In mitigation I was probably fairly streetwise - having to travel 6 miles to school since the start of secondary school and travelling with lots of sports tours probably helped.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
She'l be staying overnight at an airline funded hotel, and escorted onto the train - she's hardly going out into the heart of darkenss, as some people on here seem to think (OO, Egypt! All those nasty, pervy ay-rabs!! OO, South Africa. Everyone gets raped and murdered there!!). As Brainaddict says, give her a decent guidebook, make it very clear to her that there are risks and that lurking around the hotel would be a better option than going out into downtown Cairo (which is a proper mental city - I went there at 18)
As BA also said - she could be 21 and if it was her first time travelling make exactly the same mistakes.
Yep.
As BA also said - she could be 21 and if it was her first time travelling make exactly the same mistakes.
Yep.
trashpony
Hag
Well there's violence and there's sexual assault. I've had my tits grabbed, been grabbed between the legs and been hissed at and spat at more times than I can remember travelling in areas where woman alone are considered to be whores. None of those incidents are worthy of report tbh but they don't make for a pleasant travelling experience. And I can't believe they'd happen to men.
No, but you're more likely to be assualted, robbed, suffer racist reactions and the like if you're male.
TBH, I sympathise with the issues women suffer in some socities, particularly given stereotypes of Western women as easy. My better half is blonde and female and I can see why folks would be uncomfortable with the attention, low-level harrassment and general open-mouthed staring. There are ways to minimise the attention with appropriate dress and I suspect that, like most 17 year olds, crudely sexual comments and actions won't be that unfamiliar to her.
TBH, I sympathise with the issues women suffer in some socities, particularly given stereotypes of Western women as easy. My better half is blonde and female and I can see why folks would be uncomfortable with the attention, low-level harrassment and general open-mouthed staring. There are ways to minimise the attention with appropriate dress and I suspect that, like most 17 year olds, crudely sexual comments and actions won't be that unfamiliar to her.
moonsi til
worked it out now!
My first instinct was no I wouldn't be comfortable with this and this was mostly due to being female in those countries. I think females in certain countries are more of a target. However I think it is worth conidering also.
Where will she stay in Cairo? I have just returned from Egypt via Cairo and the airport there felt very secure, modern and well equiped with food/drink places etc. Cairo is a busy place where there will be hassle on the streets from vendors and crossing the road will be dangerous. It would be easy to get over-whelmed in Cairo if you have never travelled much before.
Do you know how long the train journey is and what type of cabin she may be in. Ultimately that would have bearing on the decision. As has been suggested (though perhaps not a option) a flight to Cape Town would be safer.
Where will she stay in Cairo? I have just returned from Egypt via Cairo and the airport there felt very secure, modern and well equiped with food/drink places etc. Cairo is a busy place where there will be hassle on the streets from vendors and crossing the road will be dangerous. It would be easy to get over-whelmed in Cairo if you have never travelled much before.
Do you know how long the train journey is and what type of cabin she may be in. Ultimately that would have bearing on the decision. As has been suggested (though perhaps not a option) a flight to Cape Town would be safer.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
The same thing could be said about NYC tho, or any comparable capital city. First time I went to Paris on my own I was all 'Whoah!!'
teuchter
je suis teuchter
I can't believe they'd be likely to happen in an airport hotel where travellers of all nationalities is the norm, or on a long distance train in South Africa.
And that train journey from Joburg to Cape Town is one of the classic rail journeys of the world! Not an opportunity one should miss on account of paranoia in my opinion.
scifisam
deleted
Different kind of attacks. Low-level harassment, where you've done nothing at all to 'put yourself at risk' of trouble (I hate that phrase, put yourself at risk - it makes it sound the victim's fault - but hopefully you know what I mean) is much more likely for women than men. I'd hazard a guess that rape is also more likely.
Hopefully G's sensible enough to read the accusations of racism in this thread (not from you, tarannau) and realise that they're bollocks. Tourists are more at risk than locals, people who don't speak the language are more at risk than people who do, people from different cultures are at more risk, and crime rates are higher in some places than others. That's just the way it is.
Will your daughter be staying in a hotel at the airport, moomoo? Some people are saying that for definite, but I haven't seen you mention it.
Guineveretoo
Mostly bewildered
I would let her go, but I would fret for the whole time, and I would make sure that she knew that I was fretting, so that she understood that she had to keep in touch with me regularly and frequently, so that I knew where she was and how she was getting on.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
More people confirming that long-distance trains in SA are perfectly safe and OK for lone woman travellers:
http://boards.bootsnall.com/trains-in-south-africa-t42129.html
http://boards.bootsnall.com/trains-in-south-africa-t42129.html
quimcunx
imprimeo, lamino, distribuo
Will your daughter be staying in a hotel at the airport, moomoo? Some people are saying that for definite, but I haven't seen you mention it.
Don't think so. It's maybe because it's what I advised a couple of posts into the thread.
quimcunx
imprimeo, lamino, distribuo
I'm sure they weren't but parents do often have a very different attitude to men/boys travelling alone and at night etc.
In fact everyone seems to. We all know that men are more likely to be attacked generally but it's only women we advise to get taxis home from a night out etc. for their safety.
That's another discussion though.
quimcunx
imprimeo, lamino, distribuo
It's not necessary for her to be walking any streets.
She can stay at an airport hotel in Cairo and she will be escorted from the airport in Jo'burg to the train.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Where do you get this bollocks from? You're seriously suggesting that in Egpyt and SA, or indeed anywhere, a tourist is more likely to be attacked than a local person? Anything to back up this assertion?
Wow, there's some parenting skills there...good advice, guilt your kids endlessly about how you feel.
What a load of complete horsehit.
girasol
Addicted to handstands!
Anyone who has travelled knows that tourists are more at risk of having things stolen
(and therefore attacked if they react)I thought that was a given!!! Lots of opportunistic thefts take place in tourist areas!
Being in an area you don't know, not speaking the language and looking lost make you stick out like a sore thumb to anyone who cares to look and take advantage of that!!!
scifisam
deleted
Yes, I am suggesting that. Not just for those places, but for anywhere, including London. Come on, you're not seriously suggesting that people are as likely to be attacked in a place they know well as in a place that they don't know well? That's all 'tourists are more likely to be attacked' means.
) then get her a flight with stopover somewhere else... plenty of flights stopover in Europe for the the flight down to Cape Town.kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
So other than assertion, no one can actually come up with anything that shows tourists more likley to be attacked than a local person?
Because what you're saying is that more tourists will be attacked, have a higher incidence of crime against them, than local people. How many tourists were murdered last year in London compared with locals? How many locals were mugged compared with tourists? I suspect you're talking bollocks.
Because what you're saying is that more tourists will be attacked, have a higher incidence of crime against them, than local people. How many tourists were murdered last year in London compared with locals? How many locals were mugged compared with tourists? I suspect you're talking bollocks.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
a. 8 (in the UK, twice in my 'home' town, 6 times since i moved to London
b. 1, on a 10 month trip to the US
b. 1, on a 10 month trip to the US
teuchter
je suis teuchter
It would certainly be interesting to see some meaningful statistics on all this.
Like I said earlier I wouldn't be surprised if the actual risks to women travelling abroad didn't look all that great compared to the actual risks involved in a drunken night out in a UK town centre.
Like I said earlier I wouldn't be surprised if the actual risks to women travelling abroad didn't look all that great compared to the actual risks involved in a drunken night out in a UK town centre.
scifisam
deleted
Muggers (etc etc) are more likely to attack people they see as vulnerable. Tourists are more likely to be lost, be distracted, seem unconfident, wander into dodgy places, not have back-up with them, not speak the language, and not be likely to ever go back to the same place and be able to identify their attacker. They're also somewhat more likely to have cash on them (and passports are worth money in themselves). Therefore tourists are more vulnerable.
Perhaps the bad guys (got bored of typing 'muggers etc') avoid tourists out of the goodness of their heart, but I'd have thought they'd choose to go for the vulnerability.
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