Would you let your 17 year old daughter travel alone?

[teuchter]

You make it sound like moomoo's wondering whether to let her seventeen year old stay overnight at a friend's house down the road. You have to admit that staying overnight in Egypt is rather risky for women, surely?

Depending on the exact arrangements of course - but I am sure moomoo is capable of checking this out. I don't see that staying in an airport hotel is likely to be particularly risky. If she's going to hitchhike into town and ask around for a room - maybe. I doubt that's the plan though.

 

[scifisam]

The train part of the journey doesn't sound too bad, really, if there's enough money for a decent train (I did read the article - it was talking about high end trains) and a cabin not shared with anyone else.

Going to Egypt and staying in a (pre-booked, I'd assume in this case) hotel is risky?

Yes, definitely. I'm really rather surprised that you don't.

It's not the riskiest adventure in the world, but it's definitely one I'd avoid without lots of preparation.

 

[teuchter]

The train part of the journey doesn't sound too bad, really, if there's enough money for a decent train (I did read the article - it was talking about high end trains) and a cabin not shared with anyone else.

It's not talking about high-end trains! It mentions the expensive tourist trains (like the famous Blue Train), and then goes on to talk about

Shosholoza Meyl long-distance passenger trains: South Africa's cheap, safe & comfortable long-distance passenger trains are one of South Africa's best-kept travel secrets, also highly recommended by travellers. The Cape Town to Johannesburg train passes exactly the same wonderful scenery as the expensive Blue Train, but costs only 280 to 560 Rand (£19-£37 or $38-$74) including a bed in a 2- or 4-berth sleeper. Durban to Johannesburg is even cheaper. Shosholoza Meyl now run two sorts of train: Tourist Class trains have comfortable modernised sleeping-cars and a restaurant car. The sleepers even have hot showers at the end of the corridor! A great alternative to flying and not seeing anything, or the nightmare of being stuck in a long-distance bus seat for whole days and nights. Shosholoza Meyl Economy Class trains just have basic seats and a refreshment car.

(This is making me want to go to SA by the way)


Do you consider it unsafe for her to travel in a compartment with (only) other female travellers?

 

[weltweit]

I am not qualified to comment on this particular journey.

But I know the concern. My kid at 11 next year will be walking / cycling to school and back for the first time on their own. They have never even been as far as the chip shop so far without us. I guess what we should do is build up to it, gradual increases in responsibility.

To the OP, pity that the friend bailed out, that would have been the ideal solution imho.

 

[RaverDrew]

BTW If she needs a chaperone, just drop us a pm

 

[Brainaddict]

Yes, definitely. I'm really rather surprised that you don't.

It's not the riskiest adventure in the world, but it's definitely one I'd avoid without lots of preparation.

You make it sound like Egypt is another world though. It has its issues but what place doesn't? My advice to the OP is give her a guidebook, make her read the warnings in it about scammers and creepy men then send her out into the world. People don't grow up by being protected, and at 17 she's not exactly a baby.

 

[scifisam]

It's not talking about high-end trains! It mentions the expensive tourist trains (like the famous Blue Train), and then goes on to talk about



(This is making me want to go to SA by the way)


Do you consider it unsafe for her to travel in a compartment with (only) other female travellers?

Ah, OK, it seemed to be talking about the high end ones, but it only used that phrase to differentiate them from metro trains. Still, that is of course only one website saying that those trains are safe.

Travelling with only other females would be safer, if you can guarantee that (maybe you can), but women aren't innocent angels either, and not necessarily smart about keeping doors locked and so on.

I did travel around a fair bit when I was moomoo's daughter's age and slightly older. I was a sensible person who'd already lived alone and had coped with living on the streets. And still, the way people (especially men) treated me would make me fear for any teenage girl I know now travelling alone.

@Brainaddict: it's not another world. It is a place that quite a few women I know have been to and had trouble in. TBH, quite a few of the men in real tourist trap places (which Egypt is, as well as being a cultural place to visit) quite often do seem to assume that all British women are up for sex and apparently don't understand the word 'no' or 'stop grabbing my arse, I'm just trying to buy some breakfast!' - Egypt isn't alone in that.

 

[Rainingstairs]

I wouldn't let my 17 year old daughter go to South Africa on her own! At 17 I knew everything so how could anything bad ever happen to me? But yah, it does depend on the 17 year old, and to me--a wise 17 year old doesn't want to strike out in an Egyptian city on their own.

 

[teuchter]

I am not qualified to comment on this particular journey.

But I know the concern. My kid at 11 next year will be walking / cycling to school and back for the first time on their own. They have never even been as far as the chip shop so far without us. I guess what we should do is build up to it, gradual increases in responsibility.

To the OP, pity that the friend bailed out, that would have been the ideal solution imho.

I think it's kind of sad that people seem to have become so paranoid about letting their kids out of their sight for the smallest moment. I doubt this comment will go down well but it seems a kind of selfishness to me. The parent avoids a bit of worry at the expense of the kid's general development and independence. Like I said earlier I am now very grateful for the freedom my parents gave me because I'm sure they must have worried a bit now and again.

As far as 17 year-old girls are concerned... I can't help but to speculate that, objectively, many are routinely subject to much greater risk on a Friday night out on the town than on a trip like the one described in the OP.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

My teen wants to go and see family in South Africa next year but the only flight she can afford means an overnight stay in Egypt and then the overnight train from Joburg to Cape Town.

She will be escorted from the airport at Joburg onto the train by a family friend.

I was alright about it until the friend that was due to travel with her was banned from going by her parents because it was 'dangerous'.

Crossing the road is dangerous...

What say you oh wise urbanites?

I'd feel all squeamish about this if I was a parent. I don't know if it would be a rational feeling, but I still would. I think I'd be more inclined to try and scrape together the extra money to allow her to fly direct to Cape Town.

Looking at Google, I see there are in fact direct flights, and they don't look prohibitively expensive.

http://www.cheapflights.co.uk/flights/Cape-Town/London/

 

[Orang Utan]

You make it sound like moomoo's wondering whether to let her seventeen year old stay overnight at a friend's house down the road. You have to admit that staying overnight in Egypt is rather risky for women, surely?

that sounds well wrong.
GO TO NORTH AFRICA AND YOU'RE SURE TO BE RAPED AND SOLD INTO WHITE SLAVERY!

 

[Orang Utan]

I'd feel all squeamish about this if I was a parent. I don't know if it would be a rational feeling, but I still would. I think I'd be more inclined to try and scrape together the extra money to allow her to fly direct to Cape Town.

Looking at Google, I see there are in fact direct flights, and they don't look prohibitively expensive.

http://www.cheapflights.co.uk/flights/Cape-Town/London/

a jc2 yesterday:

 

[weltweit]

I think it's kind of sad that people seem to have become so paranoid about letting their kids out of their sight for the smallest moment. I doubt this comment will go down well but it seems a kind of selfishness to me. The parent avoids a bit of worry at the expense of the kid's general development and independence. Like I said earlier I am now very grateful for the freedom my parents gave me because I'm sure they must have worried a bit now and again.

Actually its not as bad as that.
Kid goes out and plays with their mates for hours without supervision.

 

[DotCommunist]

BTW If she needs a chaperone, just drop us a pm

 

[scifisam]

that sounds well wrong.
GO TO NORTH AFRICA AND YOU'RE SURE TO BE RAPED AND SOLD INTO WHITE SLAVERY!

Don't be daft. Surely the selling would happen first, to maximise the value of the goods?

 

[Riklet]

I personally would worry more about being alone in Joburg than in Egypt... she might meet some nasty mysoginists there, but Joburg has one of the highest rates of rape and murder in the world.

Is she intent on doing this now? Can she not wait a bit longer? Definitely depends on the 17 year old but if she's never done much before, might be a daunting journey. Then again, might be well worth it and benefit her enormously. In the end, can you tell her to travel/not travel though? Can, and has she sorted out the visas and general travel stuff? Is she paying for it herself? If you're helping out overtly and organising things, tbh, I would say maybe she's not quite ready....

 

[ymu]

She's going to visit family, not back-pack across Africa. FFS!

 

[Riklet]

overnight train + 17 year old girl alone + south africa =

I'm allowed a fucking opinion.

FFS back at you.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

a jc2 yesterday:

When you got some kids, come back and we'll talk.

Parenting and rationality aren't always cozy bedfellows.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

I know I'm a blerk, but when I was 17 I went youth hostelling round France on my own, and then met my mum and some family friends in Italy to see Florence and Venice.

 

[cesare]

Has your daughter done any kind of overseas travelling on her own before moomoo?

 

[RaverDrew]

You're just gutted you didn't get to offer your services first

fwiw I don't think my passport will be sorted in time anyway, so therefore DC gets first dibs

 

[5t3IIa]

What prescisely do the parents (presumebly) of her friend think is 'dangerous'? One can certainly pick up the idea that SA is a dangerous place in general but getting there, to a nice part of it where family lives, might not be.

You don't have to terrify her but warnings not to talk to strangers in the stop-over bits is prob a good idea.

 

[teuchter]

I personally would worry more about being alone in Joburg

She's not going to be alone in Joburg.

 

[girasol]

I think I would. I did a couple of 24 hour bus journeys when I was 15 (in Brazil - Rio-Brasilia) on my own to spend the summer with my family...

ok, reading it properly now, yes I'd be worried too, as it's a different country, therefore my answer is: I don't know! Depends on how street wise the 17 year-old in question is.

 

[girasol]

Let me get this straight though: will she only be on her own on the train, or will she be having to find the hotel, sleep, then continue?

e2a: Sorry, slow brain this morning - so she'll be looked after in Joburg, and will only be making the train journey alone? I'd advise her to seat near families/women during the journey and let her go. (and don't accept any drinks from strangers - male or female, no matter how friendly they are)

 

[moomoo]

Has your daughter done any kind of overseas travelling on her own before moomoo?

No.

She's got it into her head that she is going to do this trip come what may though. I think I'll show her this thread and let her make her own mind up though. I'd be happier if she put it off for a year or so tbh.

 

[cesare]

No.

She's got it into her head that she is going to do this trip come what may though. I think I'll show her this thread and let her make her own mind up though. I'd be happier if she put it off for a year or so tbh.

In that case I'd be inclined to encourage her to do some before she goes - perhaps organising a weekend in France or something. All organising and going, on her own. Just to acclimatise her a bit.

 

[scifisam]

In that case I'd be inclined to encourage her to do some before she goes - perhaps organising a weekend in France or something. All organising and going, on her own. Just to acclimatise her a bit.

That's what I said too. For a start, if it's completely her first time travelling alone, then her body language is going to be less confident, making her more likely to be a target (for pickpockets and bag thieves if nothing else).

Oh, and make sure she's prepared for all eventualities. What if her passport were nicked in Egypt or on the way to your relations' house? What if she missed the train? Where should she keep her money? What should she do if she gets lost? Etc etc. Not insurmountable problems (although the passport one could be rather tricky if it gets stolen outside of embassy opening hours) but much easier to surmount when you have multiple battle plans laid out.

Please tell G to ignore the white slavery comments, moomoo.

 

[cesare]

That's what I said too. For a start, if it's completely her first time travelling alone, then her body language is going to be less confident, making her more likely to be a target (for pickpockets and bag thieves if nothing else).

Please tell G to ignore the white slavery comments, moomoo.

Oops, sorry, I missed that