Would a "Business Improvement District" (BID) be good for Brixton?

Discussion in 'Brixton' started by Gramsci, Aug 12, 2012.

  1. editor

    editor Walking along the lonely street of dreams

    Give the increasing amount of people pissing all over Brixton every weekend - a direct result of the huge increase in bars, clubs and licensed premises, the oft-repeated desire to make Brixton a 'destination' and the reduction in the already-paltry amount of public toilets - how do you envision you'll get pissed people to change their behaviour?

    Without more toilets to cater for the cocktail-bloated, booze-addled masses, the streets will continue to stink of piss every night, and no poster campaign is going to make any noticeable difference.
  2. discobastard

    discobastard Well-Known Member

    No reason to give up though eh? I was trying to add something constructive.

    Why not ask them again, or we could come up with a community initiative as outlined in previous post.
  3. discobastard

    discobastard Well-Known Member

    Did you even read my post?
  4. editor

    editor Walking along the lonely street of dreams

    Could you explain how this "community initiative" would actually work please?
    Yes I did and answered with salient points. How would you get pissed up people to change their behaviour without the provision of far more toilets?
  5. discobastard

    discobastard Well-Known Member

    You approach the council/BID and make a very professional case that street pissing is is a serious problem.

    You put forward a potential solution, or at least discuss some of them. You might even try and solicit some sponsorship from businesses (e.g. BT who have those big digital screen things) and who have a CSR budget.

    One of which, as I have suggested, is for people to submit pictures of people who are pissing in the street, which then are shown on the screens or somesuch.

    It is not a fully formed idea, but is fairly consistent with a lot of successful behaviours change initiatives in the past.

    If you don’t want constructive suggestions to something you clearly feel strongly about then please just say. Glass half full or half empty?

    ETA: happy to be involved.
  6. discobastard

    discobastard Well-Known Member

    Oh, and lots of the most successful behaviour change programmes are delivered by the community.

    Pink flags on dogshit etc.
  7. discobastard

    discobastard Well-Known Member

    We could try and crowdsource a proper solution here if you could just stop objecting to everything.
  8. editor

    editor Walking along the lonely street of dreams

    Members of the public aren't invited to BID meetings. That's because - as their names says -it's for businesses only.

    And why the hell should I or anyone else have to make a "professional" case to anyone? Why don't you do that if you're so sure it's the way forward?
    Everyone knows the size of the problem in Brixton and I've done more than my fair share writing about the problem several times, tweeting it to tens of thousands of followers and telling one councillor directly.

    I'd love to hear constructive suggestions but going around taking sneaky pictures of drunk people in the street is (a) unlikely to make any real difference and (b) could put the photographer at risk of serIous injury as this case from just one day ago proves conclusively. It's a really stupid and dangerous idea.

    Couple viciously attacked after confronting man urinating in street
  9. editor

    editor Walking along the lonely street of dreams

    Forgive me for objecting to an idea that could lead to people getting their faces smashed in. Who the hell would want to risk life and limb going around the streets late at night taking pictures of people with their cocks out? And why do you think that's going to stop the thousands of other people pissing everywhere else?

    I see multiple people pissing outside my block every weekend. There is no way on earth I'm going to come up to them to take a picture.
  10. discobastard

    discobastard Well-Known Member

    I told you I’d be happy to be involved in putting a professional business case forward. I have no idea why you put the word professional in quotes.

    Obviously I am not suggesting that people ‘confront’ street pissers.

    I am trying to suggest some ideas that others might think on and come up with some decent suggestions.

    I am on the same side as you are, so I’m not really sure why you’re being such a dick about it.

    Are you suggesting that we should *stop* trying to come up with ideas to prevent street pissing? Because it looks that way to me.

    Behaviour change is complex, but I bet we can come up with some great ideas if we put our minds to it.

    But you don’t seem to want that. FFS.
  11. discobastard

    discobastard Well-Known Member

    You could take a photo from a distance couldn’t you?


    ETA: Or you could use CCTV pictures of people pissing in the street.
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2018
  12. editor

    editor Walking along the lonely street of dreams

    Honestly, your idea is insane. You're telling people to put their personal safety at risk in the frankly quite bizarre quest to capture people's faces as they take a piss around town?

    People tend to piss in dark alleyways, so to achieve your stated aim of 'shaming' someone, you'd have to get up very close to capture their face and use a flash to capture any detail. To attempt to capture someone pissing in the dark from afar you'd need an expensive SLR camera with an expensive zoom lens and even then you'd struggle to get any damning detail.

    It's a ridiculous and dangerous idea, but if you think it's a winner, why don't you get on the streets at 2 in the morning this weekend and see how you get on?
  13. editor

    editor Walking along the lonely street of dreams

    The only practical way to stop people pissing over the streets is to put up more toilets. Everywhere. All over Brixton. It's now being promoted heavily - by the BID and Lambeth - as a night destination so if you have massively increased crowds of people being encouraged to come into Brixton and spend their money in licensed premises, there's going to be a massively increased amount of people wanting a piss. The night tube just exacerbates the situation with the streets packed every weekend until very late.

    Do you know how many public toilets are available in central Brixton at 2am?
  14. discobastard

    discobastard Well-Known Member

    Fucks sake.

    You don’t understand behaviour change do you? You don’t need to get up in people’s faces. All you need to do is show that there are examples of people pissing in the street and have been captured doing so.

    I told you that these are just ideas, I don’t claim to have the best solution, but that people can put forward ideas here to try and tackle the issue.

    But you seem to be crushing any kind of positive action. I don’t know why.

    What’s your solution then?

    If anybody wants to discuss it and come up with some clever solutions (which may or may not be a final answer), then let’s meet at the Effra Social at 8pm on Thursday and see if we can come up with some good ideas to knock around.

    It might not arrive at the perfect solution but it’s better than your glass half full bullshit. And at least we’ll have tried to come up with some ideas.

    Hope you can join us.
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2018
  15. editor

    editor Walking along the lonely street of dreams

    I've already told you: fewer pointless flapping advert banners, fewer pointless 'take a piss before you go' posters and MORE PUBLIC TOILETS.
    That's extremely positive action and - in my opinion - the only thing that's likely to have any noticeable impact on the twats who use the streets and doorways of Brixton - and my block - as toilets every weekend.

    Oh and you didn't answer my question: Do you know how many public toilets are available in central Brixton at 2am?
    The answer to that is absolutely central the the problem.

    Good luck with your meeting. Be sure to post up your solutions.
  16. discobastard

    discobastard Well-Known Member

    I have no idea how many public toilets are available in Brixton at 2am.

    I take it from your comment that you aren’t interested in getting involved in any effort to come up with an effective solution. Shame, given your standing in the local community.
  17. SpamMisery

    SpamMisery Pretty comfortable here right under your skin

    That's an interesting concept discobastard

    There was a really interesting study where an office put up a photo of someone's eyes (from ear to ear but not the parts of the face above or below) next to the office fridge with words to the effect of "food theft is still theft". Theft of food virtually disappeared. People hate sensing they are being watched by unseen individuals and, consequently, modify their behaviour.
    alcopop likes this.
  18. editor

    editor Walking along the lonely street of dreams

    Maybe that should be your starting point if you want to find out an effective solution? The answer is none. Zero

    Even the Blog has written about it so there's been no shortage of publicity about this situation.
    I've already offered up what I believe would be the ONLY effective solution.
  19. discobastard

    discobastard Well-Known Member

    Quite right. There are some really interesting ways of getting people to change behaviour.

    I can’t say I’m an expert but am happy to try and facilitate a discussion for those that are interested. And also try and approach people (like BT) who may be able to further help some way of changing behaviour.

    I’m only going to turn up if others commit to coming obviously (sounds like Editor isn’t interested) but if anybody else does want to come along and knock some ideas round to address the issue then can they drop me a PM or say so here.

  20. discobastard

    discobastard Well-Known Member

    That’s fine dude. I understand your position. Total respect for that.

    If anybody else is up for discussing it on Thursday I’ll keep you in the loop.
  21. discobastard

    discobastard Well-Known Member

  22. ricbake

    ricbake working out how

    People pissing in the street is a world wide problem, providing toilets has to be the best solution.
    Lambeth Council spent £110 million on the Town Hall and Civic Centre but provide no public toilets.
    Out of the BIDs half million £ per annum budget they aren't going to make much impression.
    The venues selling the booze need to be given responsibility - 10pee on a drink to the urinal fund?

    The Academy attracting 5,000 punters a concert who drink before arriving and then have their fill at the event, supply literally 100s of pisser to the surrounding streets and door steps.

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    editor, alcopop and bimble like this.
  23. shakespearegirl

    shakespearegirl just worked out taglines

    I really can't see BT's CSR department donating to a scheme where you publicly shame people and show their images on giant screens..

    The logical answer is public toilets that are open when the public are leaving venues and security between major venues and the tube to move people along and stop them pissing on the streets. And the main thoroughfares being thoroughly cleaned every day!

    I work near Gillet Square in Dalston, there is a massive street scene - from temporary kids playgrounds being set up, to hundreds of people partying on a hot evening - there it a pissoir permanently in the square and it is hosed down every morning. At least the council is doing something to control the impact.
    editor likes this.
  24. alcopop

    alcopop Banned Banned

  25. shakespearegirl

    shakespearegirl just worked out taglines

    Lambeth do have a community scheme.

    Find a public toilet | Lambeth Council

    Don't think its very well publicised though and I've heard of places like McDonalds not honouring it during busy times.
  26. alcopop

    alcopop Banned Banned

    Cool, maybe Brixton BID could publicise it using posters?
  27. shakespearegirl

    shakespearegirl just worked out taglines

    Why not just open some public toilets!!
    editor likes this.
  28. alcopop

    alcopop Banned Banned

    Easier and cheaper to do posters tbh
  29. Southlondon

    Southlondon The river's there for a reason

    We have a urinal on the Vauxhall transport interchange, and one adjacent to the Vauxhall Tavern. I’m not sure if they’re funded by the BID or the council, but it’s worth raising it with the BID. Also worth pointing out the effectiveness of BIDs depends on how well they’re managed, and how effectively they engage with the local community.
    editor likes this.
  30. editor

    editor Walking along the lonely street of dreams

    I'm not sure McD has honoured it all at night recently, and even if they were, it still wouldn't address the major problem of the complete absence of late night toilets. We need pissoirs not posters!
    shakespearegirl and Southlondon like this.

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