TremulousTetra
prismatic universe
Did she mention the ex-anarchist now sw member, who got up to speak about the pisspoor politics & worse behaviour of the @s?
Wot no Marxism thread !
- Thread starter Macullam
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TremulousTetra
prismatic universe
I would say bambery's comments about @s were pretty spot on.
It's amazing how unbelievably low the level of political comment and analysis (well, what analysis I hear you say..) is on this thread.
I'd be the first to admit that the swp has made some fairly serious mistakes in the last few years, but nevertheless its still capable of organising an event that pulls probably twice what any competitor could, and 10 times the amount you'd be likely to see at an anarchist attempt at a weekend of discussion and analysis.
But somebody walked past and saw a few young people with palestinian scarves on and thinks its somehow significant, someone else loves that old joke about 'social workers party' (Wa ha ha ha ha...).
And that's it. Pathetic really.
I'd be the first to admit that the swp has made some fairly serious mistakes in the last few years, but nevertheless its still capable of organising an event that pulls probably twice what any competitor could, and 10 times the amount you'd be likely to see at an anarchist attempt at a weekend of discussion and analysis.
But somebody walked past and saw a few young people with palestinian scarves on and thinks its somehow significant, someone else loves that old joke about 'social workers party' (Wa ha ha ha ha...).
And that's it. Pathetic really.
nightbreed
Im Bored
I didnt go.
Didnt realise it was on.
Wouldnt have gone if I did realise it was on.
Did any workers go or was it all students and ex students?
Mind you, I did go to a SWP meeting on the open letter to the left last week. Lasted 2 hours and everyone agreed unity will only happen around solidarity type issues. About 12 people there.
Nice to go to that type of meeting every couple of years. Again only retired people, 2 students and a couple of charity workers attended. The event I expect like Marxism was a million miles from where workers are.
Didnt realise it was on.
Wouldnt have gone if I did realise it was on.
Did any workers go or was it all students and ex students?
Mind you, I did go to a SWP meeting on the open letter to the left last week. Lasted 2 hours and everyone agreed unity will only happen around solidarity type issues. About 12 people there.
Nice to go to that type of meeting every couple of years. Again only retired people, 2 students and a couple of charity workers attended. The event I expect like Marxism was a million miles from where workers are.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
Cliche No. 254
Bakunin
I am Noodle's bitch.
If I didn't know better, I'd say that remark reeks of Trot prejudice, really.
I think you'll find that it's not supposed to be about 'We have so many more attendees than you'-style willy-waving. I always thought that being an activist was about effective activity, actually deciding what needs doing and then seeking out the best way to go about doing it, and then actually going out and making an effort to get whatever 'it' is done.
And your comment about 'mistakes' doesn't quite tell the whole story either, now does it? Why don't we talk, as well as about the genuine mistakes, about all the deliberate acts of destructive fuckery that the SWP have pulled, in a number of places, at a number of different time and with all manner of different people.
Well I am a trot so I'll plead guilty on the first charge.
On the willy-waving allegation, I didn't start the thread, nor did any swp member. I was just pointing out that to have a thread which just consists of the political equivalent of a load of raspberries being blown is pointless and pathetic. By the standards of the Left, this event was of a significant size, and people should engage with that imo.
As far as 'destructive fuckery' goes, no i don't accept that as a correct analysis, but i don't intend to sit here all night and go over old ground that has been chewed over about 6000 times already. I can't think of anything that anyone could possibly say that hasn't already been said.
greenfield
Former lurker
Urban's certainly changed. A few years ago Marxism would have attracted a lot of comment. Nowadays, hardly anything... But perhaps that reflects the decline of the Left - or even of participatory politics generally?...
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
that's cos fuck all people go to marxism these days. there were even very few books worth nicking off the bookmarks stall this year. time was when it lasted for a week - now it seems to be over in a weekend.
greenfield
Former lurker
Do you think that's cos of the decline of the Left, or the decline of politics generally?
I remember when I was in the SWP and Marxism was visibly smaller every year. I left before it became a glorified weekend though.
I remember when I was in the SWP and Marxism was visibly smaller every year. I left before it became a glorified weekend though.
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
no, i think it's cos there's fewer people in the swp.
greenfield
Former lurker
Fairy nuff.
It's true though, that the Left as an idea(l) has declined in the last few years as a political movement big time hasn't it?
I've got a lot to say about all my experience of that, I suppose, but it'll have to wait for another time. I guess all I'm saying is that while I shed no tears for the decline of the SWP, the Left has also continued to decline as well, and that is sad.
I'm interested as to why you think that is, PK, btw. You're an intelligent poster.
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
greenfield
Former lurker
Soooory!! Typo...
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
greenfield
Former lurker
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
i think that the left's been brought down for the same reasons as the labour party, because in large measure it's lost touch with the working class.
kavenism
Progressive misanthrope
Funny you say that as I happen to know for a fact that Bookmarks had their best ever Marxism in terms of revenue and books sold. Looks like there is still interest at an educational level. And anyway it's still on for nearly five days, I don't know who could put up with a whole week!
Random
Ethnic nalgocrat
It's because the SWP are so irrelevant now and stuck in their rut we don't even bother criticising them any more.
TremulousTetra
prismatic universe
I think because most of the stuff on here of that ilk, is encapsulated delusion. Such as the SP on SW one member one voted = SW wanted to control the SA.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
The attendance claim (which is always overstated) is in the same region as the last few years "4500", "well over 4,000", "4,100", so if what you say above is true than it's a case of the same number of people spending more on books.
Random
Ethnic nalgocrat
The only possible conclusion to draw is that the SWP has attracted richer members
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
For some reason they sent me a free ticket, only managed to get down for Visteon meeting after work( if that counts as being a worker).
Cannot believe the audacity of SWP, their level of opportunism and manipulation of facts knows no bounds. Apparentely almost single handedly opposing call of British Jobs.... at Lindsey and other wildcat actions recentely, main supporters at Visteon and calling for left Unity after their behaviour and policies resulting in the split in RESPECT & SSP.
Think their were a couple of caucuses for public sector workers e.g. posties, teachers.
Never got to find out what was discussed.
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
If you want quantity and a nice cosy middle class, semi hedonistic, semi evangelical cultish event go to Marxism.
If you want quality, relatively decent political analysis, listen to workable strategic goals for the British(on the basis of their analysis of imperialism and tendency towards chauvanism to movements in the developing/3rd World) working class & socialism and meet serious working class activists: Go to Socialism.
If you want the possibility of a Riot, interesting, original, imaginative and 'spontaneous' talks; Go to the Anarchist Bookfair
TremulousTetra
prismatic universe
everybody I spoke to thought it was bigger than last year. Couldn't get into several meetings, and most I went to work full.
I figure I had was, 2000 students.
JHE
.
Tsk. That's the 'party' membership.
By the way, has John Rees been sighted at all, or is he off in the Social Workers' version of Siberia?
Dunno.
However he does have the advantage that he can write whatever he likes as a reference.
And he has written some books that, whatever you may think of them, have been published by well established bourgeois publishing houses. A career in academia seems likely.
I'll ignore the 'sect' raspberry that you just blew. U ain't worth the time of day.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
It could simply be that last years attendance claim was more exaggerated than this one, so that growth in real attendance was masked by stability in fictional attendance.
You would certainly expect, all other things being equal, that more random people would show up this year than for the last couple of years given the wider political situation.
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