Wot? No England v All Blacks thread?

[gabi]

I love the fact that the ABs haven't won it for what'll be coming up for 20 years. Part of me wants to see them win for once, the other half looks forward to seeing the cocky, island-despoiling, kiwis choke again in the knockout stages.

Island-despoiling? The ECB's been busy harvesting the sub-continent's finest for the upcoming ashes tour, and you call NZ despoiling?

As for cocky - damn right. When we can send out what almost amounts to a 2nd XV and still run up a record win at the 'home of rugby' (puke), then I think a bit of cockiness is warranted.

The first team will get a run-out against the frogs and the welsh, no need to risk em just yet

 

[Mr Retro]

All Blacks will be very hard to beat at this WC. They haven't left a stone unturned in their preperation, even going as far as offering their players French lessons.

Hodgson is a journeyman and will never be able to run a game in the way an outhalf needs to these days. Kay and Grewcock were outplayed in the engine room. What selector in their right mind would send Moody out to compete with McCaw for loose ball?

Cohen looked good though and I liked Perry and Allen (his takling aside).

Island-despoiling? The ECB's been busy harvesting the sub-continent's finest for the upcoming ashes tour, and you call NZ despoiling?

We're talking about rugby here though. NZ have raped the best rugby talent from the Pacific Islands and given nothing in return. You can't deny that.

 

[J77]

The first team will get a run-out against the frogs and the welsh, no need to risk em just yet

Ohhh....

I like how you hang out the implication that the Welshies are better than the English

You've gotta laugh at that

And him

 

[gabi]

We're talking about rugby here though. NZ have raped the best rugby talent from the Pacific Islands and given nothing in return. You can't deny that.

That was a deliberate wind-up mr R - the point being that the two 'asian' players in englands cricket team were born and bred here.

In much the same way as the majority of the players we allegedley kidnapped from pacific islands were either born in NZ or have grown up there since a very young age. Ever heard of immigration? Auckland has by far the largest polynesian population of any other city in the world.

I can assure you that the NZRFU isn't scouring the islands looking for talent - it's already there in our larger cities.

 

[llantwit]

Is there an equivalent advert with Charl in?

 

[J77]

Is there an equivalent advert with Charl in?

I was using your pin-up boy ironically

 

[Mr Retro]

I can assure you that the NZRFU isn't scouring the islands looking for talent - it's already there in our larger cities.

Thats bullshit gabi and you know it. But dont take it from me:

Perhaps the biggest threat to Pacific rugby is not migration trends, but scouts heading to the islands and recruiting the best young talent available there. Disguised as scholarships, this blatant poaching of island talent has depleted the player bases of the Samoa, Fiji and Tongan unions more than anything else.

For those families, the attraction of providing their sons with a good education as well as an opportunity to develop their rugby overseas is hard to turn down once approached. And there is usually nothing the local unions can do to ensure these young boys return to represent their country of birth.

But even those islanders who do wish to represent their country are often pressured against it and have clauses in their contracts to prevent them doing so. There are scouts who go to the Islands to offer their best players scholarships.

from here.

 

[bendeus]

Ohhh....

I like how you hang out the implication that the Welshies are better than the English

You've gotta laugh at that

I would say that at current state of play the Welshies most definitely are better than the Saes. Something which will be borne out in the 6 nations when you play us at the Millstad. I just don't think you have the creativity to beat us, and your power advantage is less pronounced now than it has been for many a year. Wales' defence is no longer as leaky as a colander (though you wouldn't have thought that when watching the Aussie game, granted.).

Feel free to bump this thread in the new year

 

[gabi]

Thats bullshit gabi and you know it. But dont take it from me:

from here.

Sorry but who the hell is Peter Rees? I grew up in NZ, went thru the education system in south auckland, including with several of the current all black squad and can assure you that the talent is as close to home-grown as is possible. Pacific Islanders migrate to NZ in droves - they always have. Unless you've lived there for some time you will always find it hard to appreciate the relationship between NZ and the pacific islands... I know the idea of an integrated culture is strange to the english, but its about time you guys stopped whining about this one..

Which players in particular are u referring to with your complaints? Names please.

 

[tarannau]

. Pacific Islanders migrate to NZ in droves - they always have. Unless you've lived there for some time you will always find it hard to appreciate the relationship between NZ and the pacific islands.
Which players in particular are u referring to with your complaints? Names please.

Although it's much easier to migrate when a friendly rugby club identifies your talent and assists in your immigration isn't it? It's nonsense to suggest that it doesn't happen - young islander talent is tracked from an early age and often encouraged to move before qualification becomes an issue

And in the case of players like Caucaunibuca, who had played for Fiji previously, NZ have even pushed hard to more quickly 're-nationalise' players (and then leave them on the bench...)

Sadly, the Pacific island teams aren't even half as competitive as they used to be, largely as a result of such a policy.

 

[Mr Retro]

I know the idea of an integrated culture is strange to the english, but its about time you guys stopped whining about this one..
.

What exactly are you say here? Very dangerous ground I think.

Are you denying there is a scouting system run by New Zealand in the Pacific Islands?

In the last Pacific Islands forum in Aukland the issue was raised and minuted. The Pacific Islanders were to take up the issue with the NZ Rugby Union their concers about the adverse affect the policy was having on the development of the game in the Islands.

How many tests have the All Blacks played in the Pacific Islands.

 

[slaar]

Island-despoiling? The ECB's been busy harvesting the sub-continent's finest for the upcoming ashes tour, and you call NZ despoiling?

As for cocky - damn right. When we can send out what almost amounts to a 2nd XV and still run up a record win at the 'home of rugby' (puke), then I think a bit of cockiness is warranted.

The first team will get a run-out against the frogs and the welsh, no need to risk em just yet

Well, the only players who stands out for me as first choice over the team picked are So'oailo for Masoe, and MacDonald at Full Back pushing Miuliana into Inside Centre for Nonu. Wouldn't call that a second string.

Incidentally:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/6124246.stm

"I'm not going to defend the indefensible," added O'Brien.

"When Joel referred the incident to the television match official the wrong questions were asked.

"Had I been refereeing the game without the option of going 'upstairs', my instinct would unquestionably have been to award the score.

"We are not going to hang Joel out to dry because he did actually referee well.

"It's not a question of giving the attacking side the benefit of the doubt. It's just a matter of getting these things right."

 

[gabi]

Although it's much easier to migrate when a friendly rugby club identifies your talent and assists in your immigration isn't it? It's nonsense to suggest that it doesn't happen - young islander talent is tracked from an early age and often encouraged to move before qualification becomes an issue

And in the case of players like Caucaunibuca, who had played for Fiji previously, NZ have even pushed hard to more quickly 're-nationalise' players (and then leave them on the bench...)

Sadly, the Pacific island teams aren't even half as competitive as they used to be, largely as a result of such a policy.

You sound like someone who has never been to NZ let alone spent time there getting to know the culture? Am I right?

 

[gabi]

What exactly are you say here? Very dangerous ground I think.

Are you denying there is a scouting system run by New Zealand in the Pacific Islands?

In the last Pacific Islands forum in Aukland the issue was raised and minuted. The Pacific Islanders were to take up the issue with the NZ Rugby Union their concers about the adverse affect the policy was having on the development of the game in the Islands.

How many tests have the All Blacks played in the Pacific Islands.

Which of the current all black squad were 'poached'?

By this reasoning, daniel carter and richie mccaw (and the other pakehas in the side) have been poached from britain - is that the case? Has NZ been 'raping' the british isles for talent all this time?

 

[Mr Retro]

Which of the current all black squad were 'poached'?

By this reasoning, daniel carter and richie mccaw (and the other pakehas in the side) have been poached from britain - is that the case? Has NZ been 'raping' the british isles for talent all this time?

Are you denying there is a scouting system run by New Zealand in the Pacific Islands?

How many tests have the All Blacks played in the Pacific Islands?

 

[tarannau]

You sound like someone who has never been to NZ let alone spent time there getting to know the culture? Am I right?

What sort of surplus, patronising bollocks is this? So you need to have visited a country before you can comment these days, especially when it comes to a nation as diverse, sophisticated and subtle as NZ obviously. Don't make me laugh.

FWIW I've only ever played NZ teams over here, never visited NZ. That said I was offered a year's scholarship to play out in Auckland when I was a teen, with one of my team-mates taking them up on their offer.

BTW, I note you didn't make any comment on the poaching of Caucaunibuca - obviously you were spending far too long on wittering specious nonsense about NZ's culture...

 

[tiki]

It's such a bad look, every time you lose you bring up the whole "poaching' crap. It makes you look like bad sports.

gabi is right, you need to walk through Auckland to get a good idea what she means. Auckland is brown, very brown. I can't remember the exact date, but it's estimated that very soon in the future being Pakeha (white european) in Auckland will mean being the minority (next 10 - 15 years).

New Zealands realtions with the islands is very strong and virtually seen as one an the same.

With maybe one exception the so called 'Islanders' in the AB's are born and breed kiwi's.

And I'm not being a patriotic kiwi, because I'm a Pom who came here to live 5 or so years ago and can see this whole poaching argument as misinformation and bad sportsmanship.

IMHO

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

It's no worse than the way the French national football team finds players from its former colonies and naturalises them...

I don't get gabi's comments about integration though - our football team has a pretty healthy number of black englishmen. and that shows integration; they are black people from england, not people we nicked from other countries like the french do.

 

[tarannau]

It's such a bad look, every time you lose you bring up the whole "poaching' crap. It makes you look like bad sports.

gabi is right, you need to walk through Auckland to get a good idea what she means. Auckland is brown, very brown. I can't remember the exact date, but it's estimated that very soon in the future being Pakeha (white european) in Auckland will mean being the minority (next 10 - 15 years).
IMHO

Nice bluster, but I note you still don't take up the example of Caucaunibuca, a guy who played in the world cup for Fiji and then agitated for a move.

Peter Rees, by the way is from Auckland and is Samoan, so I reckon he'd qualify, by your own evasive standards, to be able to comment more than effectively. Here's his potted bio from heavensgame:

Peter Rees is a freelance journalist based in Auckland, New Zealand. He is Samoan, born and raised in Wellington and a graduate from Victoria University in 1997

Interestingly, he's more than slightly worried about poaching from the islands in articles like this:

http://www.heavensgame.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=603&Itemid=82

Fancy belittling and dismissing his opinions as well, or will you concede there's an issue here? Love the diversionary slurs about 'bad losers' by the way, despite the thread being almost unfailingly complimentary about the ABs.

 

[Harold Hill]

It's such a bad look, every time you lose you bring up the whole "poaching' crap. It makes you look like bad sports.

gabi is right, you need to walk through Auckland to get a good idea what she means. Auckland is brown, very brown. I can't remember the exact date, but it's estimated that very soon in the future being Pakeha (white european) in Auckland will mean being the minority (next 10 - 15 years).

New Zealands realtions with the islands is very strong and virtually seen as one an the same.

With maybe one exception the so called 'Islanders' in the AB's are born and breed kiwi's.

And I'm not being a patriotic kiwi, because I'm a Pom who came here to live 5 or so years ago and can see this whole poaching argument as misinformation and bad sportsmanship.

IMHO

You'd think if AB's were so sensitive about how they look on this matter, they would think twice before levelling the same old boring insults at the English.

And as for the first two lines, well every All Black fan I've ever met can explain away every defeat other than losing to a better side on the day. :

 

[Mr Retro]

It's a very real issue and every Kiwi I've met will deny there is a problem. I knew it would be no different on this thread.

It doesn't bother me that Islanders go and play for NZ. Who can blame either the either the player or NZ RFU? What I would like to see is NZ and the IRB recognising what is going on and admit it.

Maybe the Islands playing a tests under the banner of the Pacific Islands is a step in the right direction. New Zealand lowering themselves to send a team to the Islands would be anther.

I'm Irish by the way, so not a 'pom' making excuses. I just recognise an issue when I see one.