worst anarchist magazine?

[audiotech]

if you go to www.killyourpetpuppy.co.uk you can download it there. don't have any of the LPs myself.

Some early Crisis stuff on there to download, so thanks.

 

[The Black Hand]

A) I'm not denying anything, it's just that my level of education (A level, if you really care) is irrelevant. What I know about politics I picked up from reading in my spare time and listening to what other, more experienced people have to say about what they've done and where they've been.

This is exactly what I was talking about earlier, by the way. You assume that because I'm able to express myself in writing and I know a bit of political theory, I must have had an unusually high level of formal education that somehow relates directly to politics. Class War commit the same basic error and then compound it by assuming that the best way to appeal to people who don't have degrees or high paying jobs is to communicate crassly stupid ideas in a glib fashion.

B) Oh really, and what is it about my politics that is "ultra leftist", specifically, and why does it matter?

A) I may have been confusing you with somebody else, but the annoying pedant line you do so well. I agree with a lot of what you say about the recent Class Wars btw. However, done properly, in the midst of mass class struggle then the Class War brand was undoutedly the most popular thing the British anarchist movement has produced. The 'Fuck the POll Tax' stickers for example would be grabbed out of your hand in the city centre boozers (i remember this very well) - it made the 'anarchist' label irrelevant because it was popular consciousness. Something the Afed has never and I cannot see ever doing.

B) If you are Afed its ultra leftist, if you do not know what that means, or why, look it up. I am against anarchism being just another variety of ultra leftism, which unfortunately poisons too much of the class struggle anarchists in the UK to make them useful.

 

[In Bloom]

A) I may have been confusing you with somebody else, but the annoying pedant line you do so well. I agree with a lot of what you say about the recent Class Wars btw. However, done properly, in the midst of mass class struggle then the Class War brand was undoutedly the most popular thing the British anarchist movement has produced. The 'Fuck the POll Tax' stickers for example would be grabbed out of your hand in the city centre boozers (i remember this very well) - it made the 'anarchist' label irrelevant because it was popular consciousness. Something the Afed has never and I cannot see ever doing.

Frankly, I'm deeply sceptical of Class War's claims to have made such a massive impact in the past, given that virtually nobody outside of the activist milleu has ever heard of them.

If you are Afed its ultra leftist, if you do not know what that means, or why, look it up. I am against anarchism being just another variety of ultra leftism, which unfortunately poisons too much of the class struggle anarchists in the UK to make them useful.

I know what I mean by ultra-left, I want to know what you mean by it and why you think that the AF is "ultra-left". Not a lot to ask for, really.

 

[butchersapron]

Frankly, I'm deeply sceptical of Class War's claims to have made such a massive impact in the past, given that virtually nobody outside of the activist milleu has ever heard of them.

TBH is making a fool of himself here, but this simply isn't true.

 

[Rod Sleeves]

Classwar is the only anarchist group most people I know over thirty have ever heard of, except maybe the Wombles. Whether that is a good thing or a bad thing is another matter.

 

[The Black Hand]

TBH is making a fool of himself here, but this simply isn't true.

You are the fool Butchers, I stand by what I write. There is a big ultra left streak in anarchism, and imho it is THE problem holding movement(S) back.

 

[ViolentPanda]

You are the fool Butchers, I stand by what I write.

Someone has to, and no-one else will volunteer!

There is a big ultra left streak in anarchism, and imho it is THE problem holding movement(S) back.

Big? Do you mean in anarchist terms (i.e. there are 5 "ultra left" anarchists in the UK) or in real terms (i.e. a majority of anarchists in the UK are "ultra left"?
And why, if you've given the subject as much thought as you imply, would it be "THE problem holding movement(s) back"? Surely you're not saying that anarchism is such a "narrow church" that the same issue would impinge on the entire "congregation"?
Or perhaps you are.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Classwar is the only anarchist group most people I know over thirty have ever heard of, except maybe the Wombles. Whether that is a good thing or a bad thing is another matter.

"Class War" gave good slogan, and even better (for the media, anyway), they made a good story.

 

[The Black Hand]

Someone has to, and no-one else will volunteer!

Big? Do you mean in anarchist terms (i.e. there are 5 "ultra left" anarchists in the UK) or in real terms (i.e. a majority of anarchists in the UK are "ultra left"?
And why, if you've given the subject as much thought as you imply, would it be "THE problem holding movement(s) back"? Surely you're not saying that anarchism is such a "narrow church" that the same issue would impinge on the entire "congregation"?
Or perhaps you are.

Anarchism in its 57 varieties is a massive church. The problem imho is that some want to write the tablets of stone and create an artificial and pure 'anarchist communism' with no basis in the multitude/class consciousness. It affects those like Butchers, Limpcok, and others whose 'Marxism' is abstracted out of the class struggle and then imposed back upon it. They do not genuinely experiment and open politics up to participation by the multitude.

These ultra leftists think, like the old left and the bourgeoisie, that there is a linear narrative, they have no praxis and just self referentially contruct 'we are right we are' when they are totally isolated from the multitude. Their 'poitics' is never opened up to difference and movement. They are totally useless and it is really sad. They do nothing.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Anarchism in its 57 varieties is a massive church. The problem imho is that some want to write the tablets of stone and create an artificial and pure 'anarchist communism' with no basis in the multitude/class consciousness.

The only "anarchists" I've ever spoken with who want to fossilise their credo are the primmies, and that's only because they're more at home with stone tablets than printing presses.

It affects those like Butchers, Limpcok, and others whose 'Marxism' is abstracted out of the class struggle and then imposed back upon it.

And yours isn't?
Attending the Durham Miner's Gala and shaking Dave Douglass's cock for him after he's had a piss doesn't make you at one with the class struggle, wack. It just means that you're attempting to impose your Marxism more subtly than others you perceive to be doing so.

They do not genuinely experiment...

We'll only find out what works by doing, not taking part in "experiments" or writing articles to fill the mind-numbing theoretical journals.

and open politics up to participation by the multitude.

Participation is about people wanting to take part and doing so, not about offering them a host of choices, for them to ignore at leisure.

These ultra leftists think, like the old left and the bourgeoisie, that there is a linear narrative...

There is. It runs alongside (but separate from) the non-linear narrative.

...they have no praxis...

Well, that depends on how you're defining the word. After all, what is "praxis" but "practice" with a spin, a word deployed by academics to gloss their wafflings?

...and just self referentially contruct 'we are right we are' when they are totally isolated from the multitude. Their 'poitics' is never opened up to difference and movement. They are totally useless and it is really sad. They do nothing.

See, I'd have more respect for you ranting on like this if you had the self-awareness to realise your own guilt in such matters, but you appear to have clung to the perception that you are the only true arbiter of what is or isn't right, of who is or isn't "anarchist".

 

[Red Cat]

Well, that depends on how you're defining the word. After all, what is "praxis" but "practice" with a spin, a word deployed by academics to gloss their wafflings?

I don't agree with that. Its meaning is practice informed by theory which is informed by practice. The theory is modified by what is learned in practice, which in turn changes practice, which again produces a different outcome, which then changes the theory etc. Its a cyclical relationship. Or experimental as BH said. Or in your own words:

We'll only find out what works by doing

Praxis.

 

[Pickman's model]

Attending the Durham Miner's Gala and shaking Dave Douglass's cock for him after he's had a piss doesn't make you at one with the class struggle,

 

[Mallard]

Wtf does that mean? It looks like a meaningless opinion.

A polite way of saying the issue I read was rambling and pretty incoherent at times and I gave up after a bit. The bits I read seemed more mechanistic marxist than anarchist to me. But what the fuck do I know? I am entitled to an opinion though. No offence I hope it does well.

 

[Ralph Masters]

I voted for Anarchy: A journal of paedos and beardos, but only because they OP was slack and missed out Green Anarchist

As far as good ones go, RAG (the Irish anarchafeminist mag) is good, if a little liberal at times, Direct Action is okay. Don't think I've ever read any of the others in the poll (except for Organise, of course).

 

[ViolentPanda]

I don't agree with that. Its meaning is practice informed by theory which is informed by practice. The theory is modified by what is learned in practice, which in turn changes practice, which again produces a different outcome, which then changes the theory etc. Its a cyclical relationship. Or experimental as BH said. Or in your own words:



Praxis.

In other words, a word that academics use in lieu of saying "learning through experience".
My bugbear with TBH is his fondness for letting his use of Academese stray into his "public" writings, when it'd be far better to use forms of words that people don't have to scratch their heads about, however much using Academese turns him on.

 

[The Black Hand]

A) The only "anarchists" I've ever spoken with who want to fossilise their credo are the primmies, and that's only because they're more at home with stone tablets than printing presses.

B)And yours isn't?
Attending the Durham Miner's Gala and shaking Dave Douglass's cock for him after he's had a piss doesn't make you at one with the class struggle, wack. It just means that you're attempting to impose your Marxism more subtly than others you perceive to be doing so.

C) We'll only find out what works by doing, not taking part in "experiments" or writing articles to fill the mind-numbing theoretical journals.

D) Participation is about people wanting to take part and doing so, not about offering them a host of choices, for them to ignore at leisure.

E) There is. It runs alongside (but separate from) the non-linear narrative.

F) Well, that depends on how you're defining the word. After all, what is "praxis" but "practice" with a spin, a word deployed by academics to gloss their wafflings?

G) See, I'd have more respect for you ranting on like this if you had the self-awareness to realise your own guilt in such matters, but you appear to have clung to the perception that you are the only true arbiter of what is or isn't right, of who is or isn't "anarchist".

A) THat doesn't mean that they are not fossilising it, it is a de facto fossilisation - i am quite aware they think otherwise.

B) Au contraire, I have always said that there is no imposition, it is about spreading the struggles. Look at the recent stuff during the postal dispute, Mayday covered the dispute in process and had the best agitational propaganda. BTW your straw man, Dave Douglass and the miners, is a laughable provocation, that is a small part of what I do.

C) Experiments are DOING, it is time to realise that all participation IS experiment, and a chance to reflect.

D) Participation is encouraged or not, imho the anarchists separate themselves off from ordinary people by setting up too many political obstacles to engage.

E) THe Linear narrative may exist, but it is a totally false construction imposed on the real world.

F) Praxis indicates a level of theory qualitatively different from what existed orginally, normally better and an improvement upon what existed before.

G) FFS of course I know my limitations, you lot spend so much time telling me... But I also know what efforts there are are not only not enough, they are poor, partial, and barely existing, and those who could do something about it choose not to, and remain enclosed within their self referential little world.

Look, I say things as a participant, my narrative is my own, I know there are more truths out there too, I know that they think they are right. THey have not got beyond the illusion that 'they are right though'. I have got past that particular barrier and that is why I concentrate upon praxis and promote struggles. There is plenty of evidence that others toss off about everything under the sun, my focus is clear as can be seen in the history of my posts.

 

[Pickman's model]

Look, I say things as a participant, my narrative is my own,

is it a linear or non-linear one?

 

[The Black Hand]

is it a linear or non-linear one?

It is a non linear one, however the dialectician within me also pays attention to the evidence used to support the linear one(s). It would be silly not to.

 

[The Black Hand]

A)A polite way of saying the issue I read was rambling and pretty incoherent at times and I gave up after a bit.
B)The bits I read seemed more mechanistic marxist than anarchist to me. But what the fuck do I know? I am entitled to an opinion though. No offence I hope it does well.

A) Which issue, cover? Articles?

B) Which bits?

No offence taken btw. I do like independent opinion.

 

[The39thStep]

Anarchism in its 57 varieties is a massive church. The problem imho is that some want to write the tablets of stone and create an artificial and pure 'anarchist communism' with no basis in the multitude/class consciousness. It affects those like Butchers, Limpcok, and others whose 'Marxism' is abstracted out of the class struggle and then imposed back upon it. They do not genuinely experiment and open politics up to participation by the multitude.

These ultra leftists think, like the old left and the bourgeoisie, that there is a linear narrative, they have no praxis and just self referentially contruct 'we are right we are' when they are totally isolated from the multitude. Their 'poitics' is never opened up to difference and movement. They are totally useless and it is really sad. They do nothing.

 

[The Black Hand]

It is a shame it passes you by.

 

[kropotkin]

It is a non linear one, however the dialectician within me also pays attention to the evidence used to support the linear one(s). It would be silly not to.

Is its non-linearity the reason why no-one can follow what you say?

 

[rioted]

Is its non-linearity the reason why no-one can follow what you say?

You can only follow linear logic? Marxist?

 

[The Black Hand]

Is its non-linearity the reason why no-one can follow what you say?

You've come to the table late.

 

[The Black Hand]

You can only follow linear logic? Marxist?

Anarchist?

I agree, they haven't got a clue as to the pedigree of ideas.

 

[Mallard]

A) Which issue, cover? Articles?

B) Which bits?

No offence taken btw. I do like independent opinion.

a) Issue 2? read it about 3/4 months ago.

b) Article on state of nation/left and one on 'theory' if I remember correctly. I borrowed it along with North Eastern Anarchist (from US) from local club as it looked interesting. I did return it after reading!

I'll look out for the next one.