working class tories - lowest of the low?

[kyser_soze]

Judgemental idiots who are prepared to demonise any section of society they don't like: The lowest of the low?

 

[_angel_]

Not about "thickness", IMO, it's about having been educated out of a sense of community, out of a sense of altruism, and into a sense of "fuck you Jack, I'm alright".

Not all tory voters do well out of the system though, the guy I'm thinking of certainly won't. He obviously thinks, wrongly imo, they are more 'moral' somehow.

My uncle and aunt are well off tories who believe single mums should be paid decently to bring their kids up.

I guess they're a minority view though.

 

[tbaldwin]

Not about "thickness", IMO, it's about having been educated out of a sense of community, out of a sense of altruism, and into a sense of "fuck you Jack, I'm alright".

That post sums up the confusion of the Liberal Left....You think the working class should be altruistic? oh dear....

 

[ViolentPanda]

The RTB scheme was a classic example of how the Tory view can be sold to working class people, it allowed my parents to buy their own home, something it was unlikely they were going to be able to do at any other time.

I do not support the RTB scheme as it was, as it had many failings, but I do support a RTB scheme where the money is re-invested in social housing.

The original RTB legislation did include a) re-investment in social housing development, b) a contractual obligation on the person exercising their "right to buy" that if they sold within 5 years of buying, they had to give the local authority "first refusal", and c) a rolling system of contractually-enforced "fines" by percentage of profit if you sold within 5 years of buying.
All that legislation was rescinded/binned/amended out of existence by 1983.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yes, these words do often seem to spring unbidden to mind when i read your posts.

 

[ViolentPanda]

That post sums up the confusion of the Liberal Left....You think the working class should be altruistic? oh dear....

Ooh, look, an accusation of being a "liberal", an accusation of being "left", and balders pretending he knows what "altruism" is, all in the same post!

 

[Fruitloop]

The original RTB legislation did include a) re-investment in social housing development, b) a contractual obligation on the person exercising their "right to buy" that if they sold within 5 years of buying, they had to give the local authority "first refusal", and c) a rolling system of contractually-enforced "fines" by percentage of profit if you sold within 5 years of buying.
All that legislation was rescinded/binned/amended out of existence by 1983.

That kind of wedge strategy is so familiar that it's amazing people still fall for it.

 

[ViolentPanda]

That kind of wedge strategy is so familiar that it's amazing people still fall for it.

I remember at the time an older mate who was a GLC councillor saying that all the gravy in the RTB legislation would be pared away PDQ after it went through both houses.

 

[poster342002]

That kind of wedge strategy is so familiar that it's amazing people still fall for it.

Quite. I've spent years of my life hearing people say "oh, they'll never do that!" only for exactly the "that" in question to indeed happen.

 

[weltweit]

There used to be a description that the left were big government and the right were smaller government.

Using those descriptions it is quite acceptable for working class people to vote tory.

And in its meddling-ness New Labour is complying with this description, more people obliged onto some benefit or other, more databases, the ID card system, the nanny state.. etc ..

 

[poster342002]

There used to be a description that the left were big government and the right were smaller government.

Using those descriptions it is quite acceptable for working class people to vote tory.

And in its meddling-ness New Labour is complying with this description, more people obliged onto some benefit or other, more databases, the ID card system, the nanny state.. etc ..

Although Labour can't be considered left these days in sense. And "big government" isn't a preserve of the left. Look at Pinochet's Chile, for instance. Ultra fremarket economy but with a huge and repressive state apparatus.

 

[butchersapron]

There used to be a description that the left were big government and the right were smaller government.

Using those descriptions it is quite acceptable for working class people to vote tory.

And in its meddling-ness New Labour is complying with this description, more people obliged onto some benefit or other, more databases, the ID card system, the nanny state.. etc ..

That description has not been true since WW1. That are both pro-big govt and have been for decades, as the capitalist system requires large govt intervention in one form or another.

 

[weltweit]

That description has not been true since WW1. That are both pro-big govt and have been for decades, as the capitalist system requires large govt intervention in one form or another.

Well I just wonder if there will be any effect of David Davis's by election on strengthening the position of the tories.

Being anti 42 days and IDCards is anti a pretty big bit of NuLabour government.

 

[trevhagl]

There used to be a description that the left were big government and the right were smaller government.

Using those descriptions it is quite acceptable for working class people to vote tory.

And in its meddling-ness New Labour is complying with this description, more people obliged onto some benefit or other, more databases, the ID card system, the nanny state.. etc ..

You're the only one to have any kind of argument against my argument. Good point and respect!

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

I dont know who the "lowest of the low" are, but phoney self called "socialists" and unions who support and fund a governing party of reactionary control freak warmongering corporate welfarists are pretty near the bottom of the pile.

At least tories are more honest.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I dont know who the "lowest of the low" are, but phoney self called "socialists" and unions who support and fund a governing party of reactionary control freak warmongering corporate welfarists are pretty near the bottom of the pile.

At least tories are more honest.

If you happen to quantify honesty by reference to the barefacedness of their greed, then yes, they are "more honest".

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

If you happen to quantify honesty by reference to the barefacedness of their greed, then yes, they are "more honest".

That's partly what I meant, but I think they are probably more politically honest too. I doubt very strongly that the chickenshit Labour party would have backed the Iraq invasion had they been in opposition. In fact I expect they would have fought it tooth and nail and with the main opposition party on side we could have even altered events more than we did.

Labour have shat on the environment, increased inequality, been privatisation maniacs, put us at the top of the arms dealing list and have such distaste for the public that they want to eyescan and fingerprint us for a nasty database. They are disgusting, their supporters of whatever class are complicit but make constant excuses. They are indeed more cowardly and dishonest than the other tory scumbags.

 

[trevhagl]

That's partly what I meant, but I think they are probably more politically honest too. I doubt very strongly that the chickenshit Labour party would have backed the Iraq invasion had they been in opposition. In fact I expect they would have fought it tooth and nail and with the main opposition party on side we could have even altered events more than we did.

Labour have shat on the environment, increased inequality, been privatisation maniacs, put us at the top of the arms dealing list and have such distaste for the public that they want to eyescan and fingerprint us for a nasty database. They are disgusting, their supporters of whatever class are complicit but make constant excuses. They are indeed more cowardly and dishonest than the other tory scumbags.

Very true.

 

[Stoat Boy]

As somebody who would qualify as being one of the lowest of the low based on the definition given by the thread starter I think I can perhaps offer a reason why I listen to what the Labour Party/left wing tells me, give it some thought and consideration and then tell them to go and shove it up their arses.

Aspirations. Or rather the lack of importance that the left seemingly attach to them now days. Thats why working class people support the Tories. And when the Tories fail to deliver, as happened with the last administration, they switched to a Labour Party who promised they would. And now thats all going wrong they are going to vote Tory again. Its really that simple.

Working class people want nice things. They want foreign holidays, their own homes, their kids to go to University. They want to buy flash looking cars. They want to play golf. They want to be able to dress up smartly and go to restaurants. In short they want to consume. They don't want to pay tax. They dont really give a toss about the environment. They like binge drinking. They like cheap air-flights. They like cheap flat screen televisions.

Now middle class people now doubt want the same. The difference is that the working class people feel no guilt about it.

If you lefties want the working class to back you then promise them tangiable things they can own. A plasma screen telly in every home might be a starting slogan.

 

[poster342002]

If you happen to quantify honesty by reference to the barefacedness of their greed, then yes, they are "more honest".

At least you know where you stand with them, I guess. Nothing worse than the two-faced "I'm on your side, really" before fucking you over approach of a lot of the so-called left.

 

[poster342002]

And when the Tories fail to deliver, as happened with the last administration, they switched to a Labour Party who promised they would. And now thats all going wrong they are going to vote Tory again. Its really that simple.

I'm on the left and could see that was what was happening in the runup to 1997 (though did not approve of it). It was the silly left that tried to pretend it reflected a great lurch leftward of the public mood. I never bought into that notion then and still don't now.

 

[trevhagl]

As somebody who would qualify as being one of the lowest of the low based on the definition given by the thread starter I think I can perhaps offer a reason why I listen to what the Labour Party/left wing tells me, give it some thought and consideration and then tell them to go and shove it up their arses.

Aspirations. Or rather the lack of importance that the left seemingly attach to them now days. Thats why working class people support the Tories. And when the Tories fail to deliver, as happened with the last administration, they switched to a Labour Party who promised they would. And now thats all going wrong they are going to vote Tory again. Its really that simple.

Working class people want nice things. They want foreign holidays, their own homes, their kids to go to University. They want to buy flash looking cars. They want to play golf. They want to be able to dress up smartly and go to restaurants. In short they want to consume. They don't want to pay tax. They dont really give a toss about the environment. They like binge drinking. They like cheap air-flights. They like cheap flat screen televisions.

Now middle class people now doubt want the same. The difference is that the working class people feel no guilt about it.

If you lefties want the working class to back you then promise them tangiable things they can own. A plasma screen telly in every home might be a starting slogan.

I have no interest in air flights, flash cars , golf or restaurants, but i see where you're coming from but surely the Tories with their anti workers rights stance, only lower wages so make it less likely for the working class to afford those things?

 

[josef1878]

Trev, working class tories are my main source of entertainment when i'm binge drinking with them. Sad thing is the Tories will walk the next election thanks to these idiots.

When they are all in negative equity, suffering the effects of 15 interest rate rises in one day and the bailiffs are turning up to evict them, just who are they going to blame?

Let them carry on chasing that middle class dream

Suckers!

 

[josef1878]

And as for Tory Union officials, how can somebody who quite happily sides with the bosses ever represent me effectively?

They can't

My Union rep is as extreme left as they come and VERY effective. I'd rather have him in my corner than a Tory turncoat

 

[liampreston]

My father, and his father (who was a miner in Wigan from 14 to retirement) always called themselves working class Tories. As they saw it the Conservatives offered working class people the chance to better themselves, not to be wrapped up in cotton wool (as they would call it) under Labour. My dad always championed the right to buy council houses, calling Labour "traitors" for the way he perceived the left's attitude to the history of England/the UK at the expense of those living in it.

Where my liberalism comes from, I do not know.....=)

 

[KA8]

I am not classist at all and I don't mind people who are classist towards me, it's their perspective and they're entitled to it. You can't expect to connect with everybody in the world.

 

[lights.out.london]

Only worse are fash and scabs.

Funnily enough the connections between the three are legion.

 

[The Black Hand]

My father, and his father (who was a miner in Wigan from 14 to retirement) always called themselves working class Tories. As they saw it the Conservatives offered working class people the chance to better themselves, not to be wrapped up in cotton wool (as they would call it) under Labour. My dad always championed the right to buy council houses, calling Labour "traitors" for the way he perceived the left's attitude to the history of England/the UK at the expense of those living in it.

Where my liberalism comes from, I do not know.....=)

Hobsbawm would say that the 'accepted history of the UK is an invented tradition' and therefore the left is entirely right to emphasise other things.

 

[northernhord]

My brother used to be a Council House Tory, he doesnt bother with them now.
During the time he was into it he was a proper prick.

 

[trevhagl]

My brother used to be a Council House Tory, he doesnt bother with them now.
During the time he was into it he was a proper prick.

Aye it's funny that i think the only thing they ever offered the working class was to buy their council house....but 20 odd years on if you lose your house you're homeless