working class tories - lowest of the low?

[poster342002]

I would say a core principle of conservatism is that people should take responsibility for their own lives. I.e. if you are working class and you don't like your conditions you can change things.

This doesn't differ from Labour's attitude now, tbh.

 

[Wolveryeti]

Surely Socialists also believe this, it's just they believe we can effect change as a society rather than as individuals?

I agree there's overlap using the example of the labour market - using chains of patronage to get ahead is a combination of independence and sociability - interdependence, and I think the idea has value in both ideologies, only that socialists would rather the patronage be extended to cover all of society, rather than have it spring up organically. The realpolitik counter of the right is that by trying to have it this way, many of the beneficial effects are lost.

Another facet of the personal responsibility argument is this socialist idea that without state involvement you are pre-destined to a certain social status, to commit crime etc. because of the way society is. I think it is a fairly fundamental notion in Conservatism that this is a cop-out- i.e. they are more likely to believe people are poor because they are lazy or unimaginative, or that people commit crime because they are evil.

 

[trevhagl]

I imagine there are a lot of working class tories (mainly down south) who feel they are getting a better deal by having the rtb scheme and that.

Be a little surprised if those claiming wftc would vote tory as they claim to want to scrap it (and replace with what exactly????)

Can't imagine why someone threatened with unemployment and losing their home would vote conservative but I guess some do.

I think we should supply them all with gimp masks and oranges so they can be like their politic idols

THE CUNTS

 

[trevhagl]

See Nu Labour for details.

fucking right, and i bet if Labour ever becomes Labour again, they jump ship to the Tories

 

[Fruitloop]

You only have to look at the social mobility figures to see quite plainly that the vast majority of people born into a particular social status stay there - predominantly because an individuals social behaviour is a product of their environment (their socialisation in fact) and not the inevitable terminus of some inner nature.

 

[treelover]

Another facet of the personal responsibility argument is this socialist idea that without state involvement you are pre-destined to a certain social status, to commit crime etc. because of the way society is. I think it is a fairly fundamental notion in Conservatism that this is a cop-out- i.e. they are more likely to believe people are poor because they are lazy or unimaginative, or that people commit crime because they are evil.

That is why to me the Tory with some exceptions(one nation types perhaps) will always be the enemy, to blame people for their predicament is Victorian and we should have moved on by now, sadly with neo-liberalism it is all coming back, I predict a form of the workhouse is not far away

 

[_angel_]

Actually now I'm thinking about it, I do know a working class tory. He's a really nice bloke, always the first to help someone out.. I think he's more of an old fashioned one nation type tbh.

 

[Belushi]

I've got friends who are working class tories, they're not cunts, they just have different politics to me.

 

[El Jefe]

I've got friends who are working class tories, they're not cunts, they just have different politics to me.

Quite. I don't agree with them, indeed they make me angry. But they're not cunts and they're certainly not the lowest of the low.

I tend to reserve that judgement for stroppy little politicos who have facile, simplistic worldviews.

 

[Alright]

Quite. I don't agree with them, indeed they make me angry. But they're not cunts and they're certainly not the lowest of the low.

I tend to reserve that judgement for stroppy little politicos who have facile, simplistic worldviews.

Nail. Head.

 

[El Jefe]

Nail. Head.

Don't get me wrong, I probably have a lot more sympathy for trevhagl's politics than yours, in fact I suspect I probably detest yours, but I just don't like the way he regards the people around him - 'lowest of the low' etc. Doesn't seem an effective strategy for change, and it's just arrogant.

 

[weltweit]

I know someone who will vote tory at the next election because he believes they will do more to support the family.

 

[glenquagmire]

Upper class Tories, bosses, slum landlords are the lowest of the low.

Working class Tories are just misguided.

 

[_angel_]

Think it's some kind of tribal instinct with the guy I know. I can understand people who are getting something out of it, but he's not. He's a pensioner and renting (not council property) not well off. But he's an ardent anglican - that might have something to do with it.

 

[butchersapron]

Tory MPs are 'lower than vermin' though.

 

[bluestreak]

I know someone who will vote tory at the next election because he believes they will do more to support the family.

I'm sure they will. If you define "the family" as middle-class heterosexuals working in the private sector.

 

[bluestreak]

Tory MPs are 'lower than vermin' though.

Vermin have a bad name. rats and mice serve a valuable purpose within biodiversity and the food chain. Every Tory MP could disappear from the face of the earth tomorrow with no adverse reactions, but if every mouse disappeared we'd be in trouble.

 

[CyberRose]

They want a government that's enterprise-friendly, so that they can climb out of the slums. The last thing they want is people with attitudes like yours, holding them down, saying that it's wrong to make a decent life for themselves.

My parents came from the poorest of the poor in South Yorkshire when they were growing up. They were able to escape that, not by being 'entrepreneurial', but because university was free back then...

 

[Spion]

I know someone who will vote tory at the next election because he believes they will do more to support the family.

You're right off message there - it's 'hard working families' these days

 

[_angel_]

You're right off message there - it's 'hard working families' these days

Hard working two parent married hetero sexual families.

All others need not apply.

Fucks sake even Prince William came from a 'broken home'.

 

[butchersapron]

Hard working two parent married hetero sexual families.

All others need not apply.

Fucks sake even Prince William came from a 'broken home'.

And a sprawling family of work-shy scroungers.

 

[Belushi]

Fucks sake even Prince William came from a 'broken home'.

And neither of his parents have ever had a job, just lived off the state

 

[Belushi]

And then there's the druggie younger brother...

 

[_angel_]

And neither of his parents have ever had a job, just lived off the state

Come on Diana did loads of charity work that involved wearing clothes and jetting around the world.

 

[butchersapron]

8 different council houses

 

[butchersapron]

Nail. Head

Yes, these words do often seem to spring unbidden to mind when i read your posts.

 

[trevhagl]

Come on Diana did loads of charity work that involved wearing clothes and jetting around the world.

Maybe thats why they bumped her off, one mustn't be seen to do anything useful what!

 

[trevhagl]

Quite. I don't agree with them, indeed they make me angry. But they're not cunts and they're certainly not the lowest of the low.

I tend to reserve that judgement for stroppy little politicos who have facile, simplistic worldviews.

I'm a BIG fat bastard
And my views come from reality. Namely that as the Tories are against everything the working class stand for, you've got to be a fucking freak to vote for them, unless you're rich. Simple really!

 

[trevhagl]

Yes, these words do often seem to spring unbidden to mind when i read your posts.

Being a Tory he probably nails his own head whilst hanging from a rope and chomping an orange!

 

[ViolentPanda]

I would dearly love some of the knackers to come on here and argue with that statement

How THICK have you got to be before voting for a bunch of toffs who HATE the working class (well, anyone on less than £30,000 a year)?

Not about "thickness", IMO, it's about having been educated out of a sense of community, out of a sense of altruism, and into a sense of "fuck you Jack, I'm alright".