Workers.org.uk article on class and immigration

[Nigel]

......and nigel if whites can do child abuse than blacks can too ..

and i repeat my ( honest) question .. are stories of nigeria and killings all lies too?

That was the point that I was making.

Don't know much about the case you are talking about, only stuff in the Tabloid Press, which in my opinion was racist in the way it portrayed people of African Origin.

Nigeria is one of the few places that I've been in Africa, and I did meet a 'Voodoo' Doctor' who impressed us all by pulling bottles of Guiness from nowhere.

Anything is possible with these 'backward primitive people' (I'm taking the piss here.)

 

[Idris2002]

I think you should all have a read of the original Private Eye article, which is available here

 

[belboid]

and i repeat my ( honest) question .. are stories of nigeria and killings all lies too?

no idea, tbh. Tho the evidence presented has always been incredibly limited and far from convincing - the establishment of a 'ritual killings' police squad means nothing, other than that the police are investigating crimes said to be[/i ritual killings - it isnt evidence of their actual existence.

 

[durruti02]

reread the eye artcile ..

actually it is arguing against the 'satanic' panic .. which i never mentionned and do not believe in NOT ..

but talks about the idea that evangelical / spiritulaist churches 'encourage' abuses by their philosphy .. and in fact the Dfes actually backs up what i am saying .. these churches are not good .. ON THIS LEVEL .. sadly they also play an important social function in those communities .. there is no easy answer

 

[poster342002]

sadly they also play an important social function in those communities

Yeah - keeping the working classes fearful, ignorant, subordinate to authority, and "in the their place". Just like everywhere in the world, in fact.

After all - GOD ORDERS IT.

 

[durruti02]

That was the point that I was making.

Don't know much about the case you are talking about, only stuff in the Tabloid Press, which in my opinion was racist in the way it portrayed people of African Origin.

Nigeria is one of the few places that I've been in Africa, and I did meet a 'Voodoo' Doctor' who impressed us all by pulling bottles of Guiness from nowhere.

Anything is possible with these 'backward primitive people' (I'm taking the piss here.)

is talk of the holocaust racist against all germans? or .. does it make ALL germans backward? .. as you put it .. is talk of slave trading racist against all whites? .. is talk of the famine racist against all the english? indeed is talk of terrorism and hamas and al qiuda racist against ALL muslims?

of course not .. we need to be able to discuss ideas EVEN WHEN THE RIGHT WING PRESS ARE ON THE OFFENSIVE .. in fact it is imperative in that situation

... WITHOUT accusations of racism ..


p.s. if you are suggestting you do not know about the victoria climbie or the manor house abuse cases and only know about this subject thru the tabloid press then sorry but you do not know what is being dicussed here .. apologies if i have misunderstood you

 

[durruti02]

Yeah - keeping the working classes fearful, ignorant, subordinate to authority, and "in the their place". Just like everywhere in the world, in fact.

After all - GOD ORDERS IT.

yep that will be the deal .. though churches do progress .. slowly! chapels did play occassionaly political pro w/c role in south wales ..

what i particluarly hate about some of these churches like KIngsway and UKCG ( and the white southern us churches ) is not just the devil shite nor the praying on weak and vulnerable people but the mega rich owners and amount the congregation are ripped off

 

[belboid]

actually it is arguing against the 'satanic' panic .. which i never mentionned and do not believe in NOT ..

what 'rituals' are you on about then? I would guess you actually have no idea whatsoever.

 

[durruti02]

what 'rituals' are you on about then? I would guess you actually have no idea whatsoever.

oh belboid dear you are so untrustworthing of me .. i live in inner london .. in the borough i am in there are probably 50 churches that are part christian and part spiritualist .. they are mainly african but also south american .. they have leaflets they hand out and also notice boards advertising what they do and belive in .. they clearly believe in spirits good and bad .. for bad spirits they belive in exorcism .. the Dfes report ( see Eye article) was on the connection between this and abuse of children .. do you think that report was racist too?

fringes of white christian churches also believe in some of this stuff .. devils and exorcism .. it is commoner in churches that have taken in older beliefs e.g. from africa

abuse was common in many churches thru time .. in the church though it was not really the relegion that led to abuses but more human failing .. in these spiritual churches it is the relegion itself that leads to the issues

see below about UCKG .. the most mainstream of these groups

"Spirituality
The followers believe the work of fallen spirits or demons (sometimes called "encostos") have real oppressing power on people. Such oppressing spirits can act directly on the person, through a demonic possession, or around of it, conspiring, through other people or circumstances. These evil spirits may be facilitated through "breaches." (lapses of behavior or in the connection to God).

A related activity is the emphasis put on exorcism and rites of rebuke of the evil. These elements play a vital role in worship and religious celebrations."

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Church_of_the_Kingdom_of_God

they deny this of ocurse and say it is much more down to earth .. p.s. they are brazilian .. am i racist agianst brazilians too?


and and by the way no of course i do not know the details of any services or rituals .. i'm not even clear on many anglican rituals .. but we can see th e effect

again i fnd it hard to understand a socialist supportting these churches .. very odd .. yes point out the possibilities of attacks being racist but you are going beyond that to try to make out they are fine ..


p.s. all churches have rituals

 

[belboid]

I have no idea what that has to do with anything I'm afraid. Who is 'supporting these churches'? No one. saying how I don't believe they are a part of ritualised murder is not 'supporting' them. I don't believe the Tory Party goes round ritually killing leftists, that doesn't mean I am 'supporting' them.

Straw (holy) man.