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Workers' Liberty bulletin for postal strikes starting today

glenquagmire said:
Oh and none of the posties we spoke to on the picket lines took the same attitude. In fact most of them were Labour voters and some members.

But maybe, as usual, the far left know better than the workers they claim to represent.
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Sorry, what the hell has that got to do with anything? Are you arguing that because some posties that you spoke to voted labour then you should support the labout attacks on their wages and conditions? And where exactly have i claimed to know better than workers - i've told you whey i think your postion is wrong and you've immediately tried to substitute yourself for the workers! lol!

For the record i have posties in my family and they will never vote labour again as a direct result of their recent nod-and-a-wink endorsement of deliberate management bullying designed to intimidate as many people as possible off the total wage bill. Difference being i don't accuse you of claiming to speak for these people - as you clearly don't.
 
"Indicate"
"Remove" my £3 a month (and I've already donated to the strike fund)

There isn't much can be done at the moment that can't be done either inside or outside the LP. This particular dispute is one which I expect will be resolved industrially. I still don't see what is to be gained by leaving, apart from the nebulous blah above.

You haven't asked me about my politics, just about this one example. If you want to know more, you'll have to wait for the paperback of my autobiography.
 
butchersapron said:
Are you arguing that because some posties that you spoke to voted labour then you should support the labout attacks on their wages and conditions?
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Yes. Yes, that's exactly what I wrote.

:rolleyes:
 
glenquagmire said:
"Indicate"
"Remove" my £3 a month (and I've already donated to the strike fund)

There isn't much can be done at the moment that can't be done either inside or outside the LP. This particular dispute is one which I expect will be resolved industrially. I still don't see what is to be gained by leaving, apart from the nebulous blah above.

You haven't asked me about my politics, just about this one example. If you want to know more, you'll have to wait for the paperback of my autobiography.
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I haven't asked you about your politics? You're in the labour party and argue that everyone else should be too. Isn't that enough?
 
BA, I had this exact same debate (at length) with glen a while back.

It seems the Labour government's policies are nothing to do with Labour party members, you can go out canvassing for them at election time without agreeing with most of the party's policies and it's downright mean to try and tar them with the same brush as their government. Or something. I seem to recall we even got to the 'what policy would make you leave the party?' question and there didn't really seem to be one...
 
If you like. I've no particular desire to carry on this off-topic exchange. Simply being a member of a broad party like Labour doesn't tell you much about someone's politics though.
 
And, Sue, I've had the same debate with dozens of people on many occasions. Few if any of my closest friends are even members. I don't expect to be able to persuade many people otherwise.

You're right that it would take a hell of a lot for me to leave the party though, because I don't think under the system of government we have there will ever be a better alternative to fighting for socialism in the Labour Party.
 
glenquagmire said:
There is plenty of support for the CWU in the Labour Party, including my CLP which passed a resolution and sent support to the picket lines.

That whole 'being tarred with the same brush as someone else in your party' nonsense could only come from someone who belongs to a party so small that none of its members have any serious disagreements.
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It's not "being tarred with the same brush as someone else in your party". It's being tarred with the actual policies of your party. You know, the actual actions of your party. Not to mention the actual views of the leadership of a party you choose to be in. There's a fairly substantial difference.

I have no problem with the bewildered remnants of the Labour left wanting to help the CWU or the strikers. In fact, that's a good thing. I do think it takes quite considerable cheek for a Labour Party member to slag off the approach of other parties to a strike against a Labour Party government however. If people like Fullyplumped and yourself had a bit of self-awareness you'd see it too.

No party has as bad a record in this strike, or could have as bad a record, as the Labour Party because they are the party fighting against the strikers. Or to put it in simpler terms for those socialists foolish enough to still be in the Labour Party:

Labour Party members opposing their own party and supporting the strikers = a good thing.
Labour Party members slagging off parties which are actually opposed to the strike, unlike their own party = not.
 
glenquagmire said:
You're right that it would take a hell of a lot for me to leave the party though, because I don't think under the system of government we have there will ever be a better alternative to fighting for socialism in the Labour Party.
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Fighting for socialism in the Tory party would have a better chance i think.
 
Nigel Irritable said:
I have no problem with the bewildered remnants of the Labour left wanting to help the CWU or the strikers. In fact, that's a good thing. I do think it takes quite considerable cheek for a Labour Party member to slag off the approach of other parties to a strike against a Labour Party government however. If people like Fullyplumped and yourself had a bit of self-awareness you'd see it too.
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Erm, where did I do that?

No party has as bad a record in this strike, or could have as bad a record, as the Labour Party because they are the party fighting against the strikers. Or to put it in simpler terms for those socialists foolish enough to still be in the Labour Party:

Labour Party members opposing their own party and supporting the strikers = a good thing.
Labour Party members slagging off parties which are actually opposed to the strike, unlike their own party = not.
Click to expand...

Again, where have I done that?
 
glenquagmire said:
Erm, where did I do that?
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Fullyplumped did. I then took him up on it. You in turn got on your high horse when I told him that an embarrassed silence would be more appropriate from him then attacks on parties which are actually pro-striker.
 
I see. If all you were doing was taking Fullyplumped up on his/her slagging off of other parties, then I see no purpose in continuing this exchange. I'm sure s/he is capable of that defence.
 
I didn't know that, pretty shocking, just shows how uber Thatcherite N/L really is, and what is the TUC doing about it all?


Oh do fuck off. The party of which you're a member and vote for has acclerated the process of privatisation of the PO by opening it up full competition last year - three years ahead of the deadline demanded by the European Union Postal Services Directive.
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Nigel Irritable said:
The fucking cheek of a member of the party which is actively trying to fuck over the CWU and the postal workers posting negatively about the attitudes of organisations which fully support the strike is breathtaking. A dignified and embarassed silence would be more becoming from a member of Brown's party.
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So the line is we ban and discriminate against LP members turning up on the 'Line' to give support. Maybe the posties should return any 'dirty money' which money donated by LP members clearly is.

Lets just get behind the Posties, it is for the benefit of all workers. Their fight is our fight.
 
butchersapron said:
He didn't say that. No one said that. They merely pointed out the idiocy of posters positions.
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Ok, but I would take support from anywhere if I was a postie. Well maybe the BNP can go fuck themselves but all strikes deserve maximum solidarity and there is no point beating ourselves up over whether that support comes from the LP or not.

My mate was on a picket line (not CWU) in Portsmouth in May and even managers in their jags were stopping to give money.It was well received.
 
nightbreed said:
So the line is we ban and discriminate against LP members turning up on the 'Line' to give support.
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You will no doubt be able to point me to where I said that or anything remotely resembling that?

As for dirty money, I certainly wouldn't tell strikers to give it back to LP members but I suspect that more than a few strikers will be wondering why their union gives money to the party that is fucking them over.
 
Yes.

But I was responding to your point about posties wondering why the CWU funds the Labour Party. If they don't want to, they can stop.
 
What right now? This second? You can.

The union bureacracy is set up to support labour, it's been there some time. It's been designed to stop them leaving labour.

You have no such excuse.
 
butchersapron said:
What to say to this? If i was jewish i'd shrug my shoulders. What to say?
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If you were Jewish you'd probably say "FEH!!" forcefully, and then call Mr. Quagmire a schmuck or perhaps something nastier.
 
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