Work mates wife,new to country,can she sign on?

[xes]

I've just shown him this thread,he feels bad for making you all fighty.

He said "tell them to chill,I'll go ask them down at the social"

 

[RaverDrew]

Certainly not a troll.

All I can say is to all the sillyness on this thread. WTF,I was happy with the answers i got,and I passed them on to my mate who was also happy. Then you all started fighting. I only posted this cos I asked my mate what she was doing for cash,other than what he gives her. and he asked me if I knew if she could sign on or not. Nothing sinister behind my motives for posting this thread. And a big fat to the "ooh he's trolling" crew.

I haven't read the rest of the thread,just read the first page and some ofthe second. presume it doesn't get much better.

as you were.

Sorry wasn't really trying to accuse you of trolling, it's just that the way the op was phrased made it sound like just the kind of thing the bnp would rub there hands in glee about iyswim.

 

[In Bloom]

Erm, I only wish I was well off enough to choose not to claim benefits (but thanks to an accident followed by medical negligence, I haven't had any other choice). The benefits system is so f'ed up that it can't cope with the people that actually are entitled. I've been trying to sort out my claim for Income Support since February, am currently being pursued for rent arrears because stopping my Income Support meant my housing benefit and council tax benefit were suspended... because I've no money (thanks to a f'ed up overstretched under-resourced benefits system that's trying to put the squeeze on *everyone* even those with a legal entitlement to benefits) I'm currently 'misusing' my cheque book and guarantee card in order to buy groceries, and being hammered for bank charges because I'm 'so well off' as you put it. Thanks for the sarcasm, it helps enormously.

So you don't think it's a bit odd to throw implied accusations of scrounging at a woman in what is, essentially, a similar position then?

If you can find information over the 'web that confirms a British citizen married to a Bengali citizen, living in Bangladesh, would have recourse to Bengali public funds, then fair enough, if there's a reciprocal agreement, this Bengali woman should be entitled to support from the British taxpayer.

So xes' workmate's wife is now personally responsible for the social welfare provisions made by the Bangladeshi state, just because she happened to be born there?

I find it really bizarre that people are willing to accept that a British national wouldn't be able to turf up in a random country anywhere across the globe and *wouldn't* be entitled to recourse to public funds from that country (except EU)

As it happens, I don't agree with that at all. If somebody is out of work and needs money, I don't see why it shouldn't come from the state. It's about the only half decent thing you can get off them.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

I don't know about your personal circumstances but like u I was just stating the options available.

My lack of clarity did not help. A problem I face on a daily basis.

 

[xes]

Sorry wasn't really trying to accuse you of trolling, it's just that the way the op was phrased made it sound like just the kind of thing the bnp would rub there hands in glee about iyswim.

No worries,I was a little taken back,first time I've been accused of trolling

 

[sheothebudworths]

Certainly

You can at least pretend you're available for work, it ain't that tricky.

Then so can she.

 

[sheothebudworths]

I haven't read the rest of the thread,just read the first page and some ofthe second. presume it doesn't get much better.

Only in the sense that it's now been established that they CAN claim WTC and HBen then CTC and CBen when baby is born.

Although other than the child benefit, the rest does completely depend on their joint income.

 

[xes]

Only in the sense that it's now been established that they CAN claim WTC and HBen then CTC and CBen when baby is born.

Although other than the child benefit, the rest does completely depend on their joint income.

Sorry,didn't mean to sound offish. Busy day,come back to thread to see it's 4 pages long,thought most of it was bickering. Jumped the gun a bit maybe,thank you for all your input.

 

[sheothebudworths]

No probs xes - was only pulling your leg, in an after all that kind of way....





In all seriousness though, I would like to think that anyone facing the prospect of living in poverty in this country would get some sort of help, whatever their circumstances (not that benefits will take you over the poverty line, but they may certainly mean the difference between being able to feed and house yourself and your family - and not).

And yes, even if they're 'lazy', because once you start to assume that any significant number of people really are choosing it as a lifestyle and introducing measures to prevent that (as we already do), you inevitably punish lots and lots more people for whom that just isn't the case.

I have worked and paid taxes blah, blah, blah...and I will again (maybe ) but I never have and never ever will, resent a single person getting a fucking pound or two to make their lives just that little bit less depressing.

Deary me, no.

 

[sheothebudworths]

(Not until we have a decent, realistic minimum wage and affordable housing and childcare provisions...etc etc etc... anyway)

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

So you don't think it's a bit odd to throw implied accusations of scrounging at a woman in what is, essentially, a similar position then?

Erm, no it's not a similar position. I'm British, have lived and paid taxes in England for nigh on two decades.

It might be similar if I turfed up in Bangladesh, married a Bangladeshi bloke, and then because I was unable to work enquired about the possibility of getting some financial support from a different country. As a British person, who'd just turfed up in Bangladesh, I wouldn't expect the Bangladeshi taxpayers to support me financially, no. So no, the situations aren't at all similar.

Personally, if I were in a relationship with a non-British/EU national at the moment, I simply would not be able to get married (and yes, that might be a breach of my human rights to 'family life', but that's a different argument/it's a moot point), but the fact is that at this moment in time, as a British citizen, as I'm unable to support a non-national spouse, I wouldn't be able to bring them into this country to marry if I knew I couldn't afford to support them and needed recourse to public funds. Simple.

The rules are very clear, in order to get a visa, you have to prove that you don't need to have recourse to public funds. If this couple told fibs in the visa application, it's their own lookout, they shouldn't have been so deceitful. The law applies equally to them as it would to me.

 

[sheothebudworths]

And the law says they're entitled to WTC/CTC.


Lucky you're not planning to 'turf up' in Bangladesh by the way - since they have precisely zero statutory unemployment benefits (for anyone, citizen or not...) to claim.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

Ann - the argument about benefits in China is irrelevant to some extent because there aren't any benefits in China anyway, for Chinese people. People are expected to support themselves. It's a harsh system.

I am quite alarmed to read that if I were to return with my wife and kid, we wouldn't have any chance of, say, getting a council flat. I thought the government were trying to tell people that the birth rates were too low and we should be having more children?

 

[Ms Ordinary]

What's really frustrating is that the government's websites explaining what benefits people are entitled to are often so confusing that people turn to the well-outdated guide on this site.

I get loads of emails from people who haven't got a clue what they're entitled to, nor how to go about claiming what they're due.

You're certainly not wrong there - I've been trying to work out what I'm entitled to while I get back into full-time work (which I really want to do) and its practically impossible to work out how I'm actually going to manage it*.

I really think they make it difficult to understand on purpose to try & stop people working out how to 'defraud the system' but it's close to making me think the safest thing to do - in terms of potentially not losing my home - would be to sit tight, carry on claiming & maybe drop another sprog to take care of the next few years.

*I'm assuming its possible, because people do, but its like a jump in the dark and I really can't afford to find out its not viable after all. (and I wouldn't have another sprog if someone paid me, so that wasn't a serious suggestion, before anyone panics at my feckless plans for draining the system).

 

[bluestreak]

i cannot see what all the fuss is about. give the lass a few quid to help the family out. she'll still be a cheaper and more useful member of society than john prescott.

 

[mentalchik]

I am quite alarmed to read that if I were to return with my wife and kid, we wouldn't have any chance of, say, getting a council flat. I thought the government were trying to tell people that the birth rates were too low and we should be having more children?

You're lucky to have any chance of council housing full stop, whether you have children or not ime.....

(sigh, fingers crossed as i am about to be homeless and banking on the council)


And good luck to anyone about to enter the chaos that is Tax Credit land.....they haven't a clue wtf is going on !

 

[Prefade]

Amongst all the typical infighting that has erupted on this thread, there is actually a very serious point to be made and a hidden example (simply because most people are unaware of it). of the contemptible way this government treats those who choose to play by the rules.

Prior to last year, residence permit and visa applications were priced at a rather steep but not too unreasonable £120 with a fee of £350 if you wished to use the super premium "same day service".

Last year I got married to Mrs Prefade, a Ukrainian citizen. She had been living with me here for two years on a student visa which we had obtained for the above fees on two occasions.

Then the rules changed.

First, before we could even go to the registry office, I had to apply to the Home Office for a certificate giving me permission to marry her, submitting my details, her details, details of income, you name it. Cost of this - £150 non refundable.

This is the legislation that has now been suspended due to a clever lawyer arguing it was a breach of human rights legislation. Sadly I was stuck with paying it and my useless cock end of an MP seems to think he has better things to do than deal with my complaints that I should be given this money back. Ah well.

Then after we got married I applied for the 2 year spouses residence permit for Mrs Prefade. Sadly last year the government decided that a suitable reaction to the fuss about illegal immigration was to jack the prices up to uneconomic levels. Consequently the price of the permit application soared to over £300, the super premium next day version now costing £500.

Nobody has yet able to explain to me how the cost of processing my application has soared by 300% nor why as part of the application I submitted exactly the same documentation as I did for the wedding application for which I had already paid 1/3 of the cost of the residence permit.

This of course lasts two years, after which we will be obliged to fork out another £300-odd for the ILR permit.

So in truth I have enormous sympathy for the OP's friend and his wife as they too are stumbling over the rather enormous financial obstacles the govt places in the way of anyone unfortunate enough to fall in love with someone from another country.

For the privilege of being married to the special, beautiful lady who was prepared to give up her life in her own country in order to be with me, and for playing by the rules and obeying the law like a good citizen I will end up paying almost £800 for what is little more than a stamp in a passport. That's £800 I can't spend on a honeymoon or buying a house or all the other trappings of marriage that most people take for granted.

Next time some Daily Mail reader whinges about illegal immigrants, I will show them these statistics and point out why doing things outside the law is actually of great financial benefit to those involved and why it is another example of the government having lost the plot totally. If they ever had one of course.

 

[AnMarie]

I personally couldn't think of any legal reason why taxpayers should be obliged to give her money in the circumstances described.

What's "knee jerk" and "conservative" about that?

Absolutely agree!!

My mum and dad claimed no benefits when they came to this country way back when. They got what work they could and worked bloody hard without claiming from the system they had not contributed too at the time. Also a friend of mine and her family were evacuated here by the UN from Cambodia in the 70's-her family were proud worked hard and never claimed benefits either.

In short why should someone who has never contributed to the system feel entitled to benefits!! As I understand it socialism is about working together for the greater good and not about leeching of people who have contributed to the system

 

[sheothebudworths]

For fucks sake....
He has been paying into the system and they are legally entitled to claim the benefits listed above.

As I understand it socialism is about working together for the greater good and not about leeching of people who have contributed to the system

...which is all very well, but you do also understand that the system here is not in any way based on a socialist model?


Good on your mum and dad and errr...your mates too....but they don't represent the experience of every immigrant arriving here - particularly now.

In short - while everyone has a story, your own experience (and/or the experiences of those you know very well) has fuck all to do owt really iykwim.

 

[subversplat]

Lots of good info on here re: getting foreign people some free money

My English (well Lancashirian) mate wasn't allowed JSA just because he'd been living out of the country for a few years! If they're that picky then I'm actually gladly surprised that a foreign spouce can get some dosh. Shame that foreign single people can't

What happens if you've got two people, married but both unemployed? Do they get WTC or do they have to survive on one giro between them?

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

And the law says they're entitled to WTC/CTC.

Lucky you're not planning to 'turf up' in Bangladesh by the way - since they have precisely zero statutory unemployment benefits (for anyone, citizen or not...) to claim.

Why the sarcasm? Why the triumphant note?

You're sidestepping the issue by pointing out entitlement to *other* benefits that weren't the original question. The original question was whether the wife would be entitled to JSA (i.e. "can she sign on?").

Answer: No, she can't, and I reiterate, why on earth *might* anyone think they *might* be entitled to claim from a system they haven't contributed to.

You seem to be have some kind of attitude whereby you're thinking I'm inhumane and arguing that she shouldn't be entitled to anything is somehow breaching human rights or inhumane or whatever... but the reality is, as you point out, there's precisely zero unemployment benefits in Bangladesh, so why should a Bangladeshi moving to the UK expect to take advantage of the fact that there is unemployment benefit here, when there's no reciprocal system?

You still haven't answered why you [seem to] believe that a non-British national should be entitled (as you seem to feel) to JSA, when she comes from a country that doesn't offer unemployment benefit, and doesn't have a reciprocal agreement with the UK for unemployment benefit.

Why should any foreign national be entitled to something from the UK taxpayers that we British nationals *wouldn't* be entitled to, if we found ourselves in a similar situation in their country?

If I went to live in Bangladesh or wherever, and they offered unemployment benefit, and they had a reciprocal agreement (like EU countries), fair enough, but why should non-British nationals be able to turf up and take out of our system *through choice* when they haven't paid into it.

(And I'm certainly *not* ranting about people entering the UK who don't have a choice, such as asylum seekers and refugees, because that is humanitarian.)

 

[subversplat]

In short why should someone who has never contributed to the system feel entitled to benefits!! As I understand it socialism is about working together for the greater good and not about leeching of people who have contributed to the system

I got to 16 years old, after leeching away at the education budget, to immediately go and sign on and start leeching away at the DWP budget, having contributed a net nothing to The System.

*scum *

 

[subversplat]

Lucky you're not planning to 'turf up' in Bangladesh by the way - since they have precisely zero statutory unemployment benefits (for anyone, citizen or not...) to claim.

It's OK, I know a good way of abusing the WTC system to get giro-level money paid in Bangladesh, perfectly legally (well, reasonably perfectly legally, depending on your gift of the gab).

£40 a week goes a long way in the middle east!

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

Lots of good info on here re: getting foreign people some free money

My English (well Lancashirian) mate wasn't allowed JSA just because he'd been living out of the country for a few years! If they're that picky then I'm actually gladly surprised that a foreign spouce can get some dosh. Shame that foreign single people can't

What happens if you've got two people, married but both unemployed? Do they get WTC or do they have to survive on one giro between them?

Your Lancastrian mate is in a position that more and more British expat returners are going to find themselves in. I can't recall the exact details, but if you're British and you've been out of the country for maybe X number of years, then you too will get caught out by the rules that are meant to deny foreign nationals any access to benefits.

I had a mate who married a Jamaican guy, and after spending nearly two decades over here working as a nurse in the English NHS went out to Jamaica for about 15 years with her husband. She returned to England after her marriage broke down, and because her very elderly mother was found to have cancer, but because her sisters had sold her mother's home (to pay for residential home) she ended up trying to claim benefits and was told she wasn't eligible, even though she'd previously paid tax and national insurance for nearly 20 years.