Orang Utan
Maybe I like the misery
Most people rent and who’d pay? at the idea of having wood burning stoves in blocks of flats
Wood burning stoves
- Thread starter Kevbad the Bad
- Start date
Most people rent and who’d pay? at the idea of having wood burning stoves in blocks of flats
pinkmonkey
2.4 hour party person
I couldn’t afford to switch, if I used my gas heater (which only heats bedroom, back cabin and bathroom), it’d use minimum of 2, maybe 3 gas bottles a week, they’re £46-£50 each now. They were about £28 pre pandemic. Diesel heater install would be over 3 grand. I’d love to put one in in place of the gas one. My stove is costing me about £120 a month to run, because I have a good source of seasoned logs which is a third of what the fuel merchant charges. Before we were off grid I used oil radiators in the autumn and spring but the electric went up so much (marinas pay business rates for utilities so it’s more than domestic), coal was cheaper. 
It shouldn’t be that way round! But to put a wood burner into a house, up here in Yorks northwards of 5 grand. So if you’re getting one fitted now, you’re not poor. I do think we’re going backwards because of the cost of living crisis, where we are is historically a mining area, many houses still have a fireplace and these are suddenly being used more, to avoid high bills, especially if you can get a cheaper source of solid fuel, which we have.
It shouldn’t be that way round! But to put a wood burner into a house, up here in Yorks northwards of 5 grand. So if you’re getting one fitted now, you’re not poor. I do think we’re going backwards because of the cost of living crisis, where we are is historically a mining area, many houses still have a fireplace and these are suddenly being used more, to avoid high bills, especially if you can get a cheaper source of solid fuel, which we have.
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cupid_stunt
Thank you for your attention to this matter!
Home ownership is about 65% compared to 35% renting.
Cid
Proper break this time
Wood is not exactly a renewable resource in any case. It's somewhat renewable (obviously), but proper woodland management is complex; forests are not automatic carbon sinks. Plus it's obviously useful for other shit, and those other uses can sequester the carbon rather than pumping it straight back out. We already import rather too much timber (the timber here is generally not good enough for C24 structural applications), and I believe we import wood for wood burners, which is... not good. The restriction in supply due to Russia's invasion (lot of timber comes from Russia, particularly plywood) is already having a substantial effect... We could do with having a bit of a rethink about many of the ways we use our natural resources.
Cid
Proper break this time
I couldn’t afford to switch, if I used my gas heater (which only heats bedroom, back cabin and bathroom), it’d use minimum of 2, maybe 3 gas bottles a week, they’re £46-£50 each now. They were about £28 pre pandemic. Diesel heater install would be over 3 grand. I’d love to put one in in place of the gas one. My stove is costing me about £120 a month to run, because I have a good source of seasoned logs which is a third of what the fuel merchant charges. Before we were off grid I used oil radiators in the autumn and spring but the electric went up so much (marinas pay business rates for utilities so it’s more than domestic), coal was cheaper.
This is fine of course... Don't particularly want to go around shitting on people. I have a wood stove in the workshop that eats timber, and is horribly irresponsible. We all have practical realities to confront. More in the sense of policy.
Bahnhof Strasse
Let's av ya fuckin' dancin'!
When we had a fireplace I would pop down BP and tell the geeza behind the counter that I wanted a bag of coal, pay for it and nip outside, pick up four bags and lob 'em in the boot. A decent money saving hack that.
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
In our little corner of rural Ontario, most people either heat with wood, or use it along with other heating methods. Most of us have our own woodlots, so we can manage the forests appropriately. Those who sell fire wood for a living usually buy the wood and split it for consumption.
The island of Montreal has banned wood stoves due to the inversion factor that keeps the smoke locked over the city.
The island of Montreal has banned wood stoves due to the inversion factor that keeps the smoke locked over the city.
Orang Utan
Maybe I like the misery
I can’t believe that is true
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
It’s long been the case that home ownership has outstripped renting in the UK, unlike France, for comparison.
WouldBe
Dislicksick
That doesn't heat your house.
Orang Utan
Maybe I like the misery
Ok, that’s a massive surprise cos it doesn’t seem that way at all, but how many ‘home-owners’ actually own a house and have the means, funds, circumstances and personal responsibility to install in their home a dangerous stove that burns unrenewable fuel when they can safely centrally heat it and insulate it instead?
Supine
Newt Member
LOL. Gas isn’t much better and expensive at the moment!
My front room wouldn’t be liveable without a wood fire. Wish i could afford to put a burner in because they’re way more efficient than an open fire.
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
I don’t know that. But I don’t think it’s as easy to install wood burners everywhere as was suggested earlier in the thread.
I’ve no idea where I’d put one, or the pipe. We live in a flat.
WouldBe
Dislicksick
No more dangerous than a gas fire.
Wood is renewable. More trees are planted when trees are cut down. Compressed logs / pellets can be made from the waste generated from turning trees into construction timber. And it's nearly carbon neutral.
Centrally heat it with what that isn't equally if not more polluting?
E2a: a wood burning stove is around the same price as a new gas boiler.
WouldBe
Dislicksick
Electricity is even more expensive.
WouldBe
Dislicksick
They can be flued out through an external wall but then might be restrictions on how high the flue needs to go.
Orang Utan
Maybe I like the misery
Would like to know where people buy a tenner’s worth of wood when they run out.
And would also like to know how the fire brigade feel about such recklessness
And would also like to know how the fire brigade feel about such recklessness
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
Suppliers used to have bags for about a fiver round here. Kiln dried logs as required are more now.
If the chimney's swept every year I think the fire brigade are quite relaxed about such recklessness, much as they feel about safety checked gas supplies.
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
Say what you like about Rayburns, they're fucking solid engineering build. Mine was here when I got here 20+ years ago and I'd imagine it was here for as long as that before. Gas and calor gas cookers and fires are flimsy in comparison.
Don't know whether he's actually correct but my chimney sweep said he doesn't think it's worth replacing Rayburns with modern wood burners. And it's strange people talking of hundreds of pounds to sweep chimneys - he's charging (as I recall) £60 in Cornwall and having difficulties making ends meet with reductions of his benefits. He's also a top man, we have really interesting discussions/government slagfests when he arrives.
Don't know whether he's actually correct but my chimney sweep said he doesn't think it's worth replacing Rayburns with modern wood burners. And it's strange people talking of hundreds of pounds to sweep chimneys - he's charging (as I recall) £60 in Cornwall and having difficulties making ends meet with reductions of his benefits. He's also a top man, we have really interesting discussions/government slagfests when he arrives.
Orang Utan
Maybe I like the misery
Sounds like he needs to charge hundreds to make a living
King Biscuit Time
Well-Known Member
Agree with this. There's also a real 'appeal to nature' fallacy with woodburners - people can't comprehend that something that feels so ancient and natural is doing is all harm. But there's not a lot of doubt that it is. Last weekend when it was cold, but misty and still but folk were off work the air around me was proper minging.
Athos
Well-Known Member
Surely wood is a renewable fuel; it literally grows on trees.
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
Did you not watch that TalkRadio Mike Graham video?? So's concrete 
The supplier I got my wood from did woodland management for Lord Falmouth so they were all offcut scraps and so the wood was proper renewed.
And there's no either or for wood burners and insulation Orang Utan , Just because you have a wood burner doesn't mean you don't insulate the house.
The supplier I got my wood from did woodland management for Lord Falmouth so they were all offcut scraps and so the wood was proper renewed.
And there's no either or for wood burners and insulation Orang Utan , Just because you have a wood burner doesn't mean you don't insulate the house.
pinkmonkey
2.4 hour party person
That tell tale stink of someone burning something they shouldn’t because it was free. There’s someone near my mums house who does that, no idea what they’re putting in there but it’s foul.
Cid
Proper break this time
Bit of science here...
Wood comes from trees. Trees, well, they don't grow all that quickly. If you use the trees faster than you grow them, you run out of trees. They are renewable only so long as the land they are grown on is able to sustain demand for them.
Trees are also useful. You can use them as building materials, for making furniture or flooring. You can use their byproducts for other construction materials, for paper, for cellulose, for oils and various other stuff. With proper management you can develop regenerative building systems.
Different end products for trees require different forms of management. E.g Structural timber needs long term investment, and it needs active forestry management (growing trees as straight as possible and minimising knot formation etc). But structural timber, if done well, can encapsulate the carbon stored by the tree for 100+ years. Then you can burn it in a plant that actively minimises emissions, or perhaps find other uses for it.
There may be a point at which it's just a bit daft to try and use the material for something other than biomass. Don't know enough about the details of panel product manufacture or other byproducts to say either way. It's certainly not financially efficient, because if it was that's where all the logs would be going... But that's a poor metric as firewood commands good prices. I think oak boards would be something around 2.5-3x the price of an equivalent weight of oak firewood for example. I doubt you'd get anywhere near that price selling as chippings to manufacturers.
Increasing demand for firewood means increasing demand for woodland managed around its manufacture. There is a point where a woodland manager will switch from casually selling forestry byproducts to actively managing elements of their forestry for firewood production. And that can turn any forest into a net carbon emitter.
There are, of course, a lot of marginal things and exceptions here. Converting a house to run on grid infrastructure, or tanked gas is going to be of at best marginal importance... And if you stack up the embedded costs of installing gas boilers, transporting and storing gas etc probably worse than just burning wood (although local emissions are a factor). But we really, really do not need an expansion of wood burning stoves at this point. And we should be looking at alternatives to them.
Wood comes from trees. Trees, well, they don't grow all that quickly. If you use the trees faster than you grow them, you run out of trees. They are renewable only so long as the land they are grown on is able to sustain demand for them.
Trees are also useful. You can use them as building materials, for making furniture or flooring. You can use their byproducts for other construction materials, for paper, for cellulose, for oils and various other stuff. With proper management you can develop regenerative building systems.
Different end products for trees require different forms of management. E.g Structural timber needs long term investment, and it needs active forestry management (growing trees as straight as possible and minimising knot formation etc). But structural timber, if done well, can encapsulate the carbon stored by the tree for 100+ years. Then you can burn it in a plant that actively minimises emissions, or perhaps find other uses for it.
There may be a point at which it's just a bit daft to try and use the material for something other than biomass. Don't know enough about the details of panel product manufacture or other byproducts to say either way. It's certainly not financially efficient, because if it was that's where all the logs would be going... But that's a poor metric as firewood commands good prices. I think oak boards would be something around 2.5-3x the price of an equivalent weight of oak firewood for example. I doubt you'd get anywhere near that price selling as chippings to manufacturers.
Increasing demand for firewood means increasing demand for woodland managed around its manufacture. There is a point where a woodland manager will switch from casually selling forestry byproducts to actively managing elements of their forestry for firewood production. And that can turn any forest into a net carbon emitter.
There are, of course, a lot of marginal things and exceptions here. Converting a house to run on grid infrastructure, or tanked gas is going to be of at best marginal importance... And if you stack up the embedded costs of installing gas boilers, transporting and storing gas etc probably worse than just burning wood (although local emissions are a factor). But we really, really do not need an expansion of wood burning stoves at this point. And we should be looking at alternatives to them.
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The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Car tyres?
WouldBe
Dislicksick
DIY stores and the range and others stock nets of logs. Local Morrisons stock coffee logs made from the waste grounds.
WouldBe
Dislicksick
There is someone round here when they light their woodburner smells like they are using bacon as firelighters.
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
Some fucker up the road used to burn mattresses that he'd taken in for disposal.
Eta: not I don't think in a wood burner though
