Woking vs Dulwich Hamlet, 3pm, 15th Sept 2018

Discussion in 'Dulwich Hamlet FC' started by Lucy Fur, Sep 14, 2018.

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  1. editor

    editor hiraethified

    I'd reduce my attendance dramatically. There's no fun in being bossed about by stewards, not being able to enjoy a beer with the game and being penned into segregated stands. I'd rather be a-Glebe-in'.
    B.I.G likes this.
  2. Dulwich Mishi

    Dulwich Mishi Old Skool Terrace Dinosaur-embracing the new-veau!

    League Two? You ARE talking about Dulwich Hamlet aren't you? We don't even have our own ground to call home, and that would have be improved extensively, if we were to get promoted and returne home....never mind ever making the Football League!
    Perhaps best to concentrate on how we are to be sustainable simply at the level we are while not having our own home ground....
    EDC and B.I.G like this.
  3. Pink Panther

    Pink Panther Well-Known Member

    Let's just say the National Division for now. We're not aiming to finish lower than 7th on purpose, so if we fluke the play-offs and beat three higher placed teams away from home (as Braintree did last season) it might happen.

    Personally I would want to do as many away games as possible, although it probably wouldn't be practical to do all of them in the first season. I take each club on its own merits. I'll go with an open mind and if I find any club a bit too unpleasant I'll be less likely to go back again in future. Any spare weekends freed up by Hamlet visiting somwhere dismal would be an opportunity to take in other games at a lower level. To be completely honest it's hard to know exactly what I would do unless the situation arises. We had separate away sections for the FA Trophy matches at Braintree and Macclesfield and that didn't spoil the day for me.
    Dulwich Mishi likes this.
  4. editor

    editor hiraethified

    Has anyone got a log in for the Tonbridge forum as the blithering amateurs have hidden it away?

    I'm seeing a bit of traffic to the Buzz site so I'm wondering if they're talking about the Woking piece
    B.I.G likes this.
  5. Pink Panther

    Pink Panther Well-Known Member

    One bloke has linked the Woking thread and branded us as weird for complaining about being segregated and the debate about abusing goalkeepers. No one else has chimed in so far.

    They still have the same keeper who mysteriously sat down several yards outside the box with an "injury" and required "treatment" when they beat us last season.
    editor and B.I.G like this.
  6. B.I.G

    B.I.G Well-Known Member

    Good info for Saturday :hmm:
    Nivag likes this.
  7. RabbleLevi

    RabbleLevi Well-Known Member

    For those of you who are suggesting ‘we shouldn’t even be thinking about league 2’...True...BUT...it’s still an interesting talking point. My first game was Hamlet and I was so young I played footy behind the goal with all the other kids. My second game was West Brom v Palace at Selhurst and I thought to myself ‘Fuck me this is all very exciting’. Nowadays however, I couldn’t imagine sitting for 90 minutes at a match, chanting the same generic songs in my seat whilst being restricted to less than 5% of the ground. That doesn’t seem fun. Exploring a ground, chatting to supporters, standing where you want and drinking where you want is great. I totally agree with those who say that feeling can sometimes nullify a result. It adds another dimension to the match day experience. Why watch a premier league match live when you can get the same experience in ultra 4K with surround sound. You get a better experience in your home...
    Pink Panther likes this.
  8. PartisanDulwich

    PartisanDulwich Well-Known Member

    Having looked at the Vanarama National League Highlights - BT Sports package - you realise just how professional DHFCTV are (keep it up Tom & Jamal)
  9. editor

    editor hiraethified

    Yes, they do a brilliant job.
  10. editor

    editor hiraethified

    A Woking fan of 25 years was rightly unimpressed with their crowd:

  11. PartisanDulwich

    PartisanDulwich Well-Known Member

    DHFC highlights viewed by 1,210
    WTFC highlights viewed by 463
  12. Scolly

    Scolly Well-Known Member

    Maybe because the Woking fans where at the actually game? ................ and frankly who watches highlights when you loose
    clog, WillClunas, Jamie Wyatt and 5 others like this.
  13. Pink Panther

    Pink Panther Well-Known Member

    Who are WTFC?
    the 12th man and Moroccan Sunset like this.
  14. takkforalt

    takkforalt Well-Known Member

    I watch the highlights when I'm loose
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2018
  15. Andrew Newman

    Andrew Newman New Member

    Hi all,

    Congrats on your win, well deserved as we just weren't at it! I have a big soft spot for Dulwich after a successful Football Manager save. I look forward to the away fixture in April which will hopefully have a lot riding on it for both of us!

    We were testing out a third camera angle for WFCTV on Saturday (we normally have two, Gantry and top of the stand replay cam). Please let me know what you think as I'm looking to get any feedback possible on our content! I'm a big fan of what you guys do on DHFCTV, keep it up :)

    dcdulwich, EDC, editor and 5 others like this.
  16. PartisanDulwich

    PartisanDulwich Well-Known Member

    In my opinion, apart from excellent commentary and camera work from Tom & Jamal - welcome that DHFCTV is free, usually out by Monday/Tuesday after a Saturday game. But key is that the commentary is not overtly biased, it may concentrate on Dulwich Hamlet's positive points, but not biased and Tom will often say not a penalty or that was a foul regardless of which team - very much enjoyed the live radio feed, DHFCTV have developed this year - but recognise only too well this is all done on a very small budget and only possible thanks to commitment of Tom and Jamal - all the best with your endeavours Andy and see you at KNK
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2018
  17. Nivag

    Nivag Well-Known Member

    Hi Andy,
    I haven't watched your normal hightlight video yet so not sure if you've added any of this footage into it.
    I do like this close up angle but only for the goals or significant action. So would work well if in the main highlight video as replays from a different angle of the goals.
    As for a whole video of this angle it did make difficult viewing for me as it jumps around too much.
    Andrew Newman likes this.
  18. MrFouldsy

    MrFouldsy Active Member

    Agree. We're very fortunate to have Tom and the standard of free broadcast. Deservedly on the way to big things I think .
  19. Cardinal

    Cardinal Member

    A few things, if I may...

    You can blame Aldershot fans for the fenced-off bit of the side terrace. Every year they came to us, a small section of their support thought it would be immensely amusing to surge down the terrace and knock over the barrier onto the pitch. After it happened last year we simply cordoned off that bit of terrace and haven't bothered to reopen it since.

    Segregation is our fault - well, a small minority of our idiotic fans who seem incapable of behaving like human beings at a football match. Hopefully the club are starting to sort this out but in the meantime we enforce segregation for any club likely to bring a few fans. Even if there's no previous risk of trouble.

    The hatched area is to do with our safety certification: iirc it's there so ambulances can access the whole ground. In the past we've had issues with large away supports standing in the hatched area so it's one of those things which stewards have been rigorously enforcing for a while now. There's a hatched area in front of the KRE as well so it's not as though we just do it to away fans. And regarding banging on the corrugated sheets; a few years ago some York fans did that and broke the fence. Although it was highly amusing watching the 'ringleader' being frogmarched out of the ground on the verge of tears, generally we don't like to encourage away fans to destroy our ground (also see Aldershot, above) so that's why you were told not to.

    Finally, last year we were in the NL and hopefully next year we will be back in the NL again. It's illegal to drink in sight of the pitch at NL level so that's why there are no bar facilities for away fans. We could install something temporarily for this season but in this league only 2 or 3 clubs will bring enough away support to warrant segregation in the first place so most away fans will simply use our bar. It sucks for you guys but the theoretical takings we miss out on don't justify the outlay of setting up temporary facilities.

    Well, our previous home game (Billericay) had a higher attendance than this one and there were more home fans. We didn't applaud that either. It's just not something we do.

    Also, don't rely on Wikipedia. Last year we averaged 2204 and had several 2500+ gates, so 1800-odd is not particularly noteworthy. Even in years when we averaged less than 1800, this would often be skewed by a few low midweek home games in winter. Our attendance was par for the course for a Saturday home game because you guys aren't a particularly big draw. Sorry if that tramples on a few egos, but it really was nothing special for us.

    As you get higher up the pyramid you start to run into more and more ex-league clubs with large support and little care for the 'beauty' of non-league football (although personally I struggle to see the beauty in cloggers hoofing the ball into the stratosphere every chance they get). Even in National League North, well over a third of that division comprises ex-FL clubs (or a phoenix from an ex-FL club) whereas we only have Torquay. If your club has ambition to compete at the top then you have to adapt to deal with things like segregation and surly stewards. That's just the reality. Of course, if you'd rather bum around in the Ryman league for the next 100 years (hello Hendon!) whilst enjoying the matchday experience then that's fine, but given the choice most people would prefer to win games with a crap matchday experience rather than lose games with a good matchday experience. YMMV.

    Having said that, we are trying to redevelop our stadium and this has been an ongoing saga for 20 years now. That's why we've not spent much on the ground. The poor matchday experience is a source of frustration for many of our fans, but the reality is that we don't have a limitless budget and we have to choose whether to spend it on the ground or spend it on players. The latter wins. Every time.
    alcopop, gnar182, 3010 and 4 others like this.
  20. Dulwich Mishi

    Dulwich Mishi Old Skool Terrace Dinosaur-embracing the new-veau!

    At first glance a decent & honest reply from Cardinal, who has taken time to thoughtfully respond.

    However, from my point of view, as someone who wasn't at the game, as I simply didn't fancy it, know what was 'on offer', and glad we won whilst still glad i wasn't there, may I make the following observations:

    There are many ways to stick to safety regulations, without appearing so surly. Stewards can have a human friendly face...none of yours appeared to be able to do this, according to the Hamlet fans I spoke to, and who posted on here.

    Presumably you think we were one of 'only two or three clubs who warrant segregation'. Hate to disagree, but... we don't think we warrant segregation. By other comments it seemed we needed segregation to be protected from an element of YOUR fans. Perhaps you should get your own house in order instead of saying it's what any club should expect if they bring more than a couple of hundred.
    I realise with your budget you should go back up, but after your comment 'Finally, last year we were in the NL and hopefully next year we will be back in the NL again' I shal look forward to you missing out on promotion this year and next year and next year...;)

    With regard to average gates, it depends if you include average home LEAGUE gates, or average home gates, which could be higher due to FA Cup matches, but whatever...there's no harm in applauding home gates when they're announced. Didn't think there was need for your 'Our attendance was par for the course for a Saturday home game because you guys aren't a particularly big draw. Sorry if that tramples on a few egos, but it really was nothing special for us.'... No w'ere maybe not a 'big draw'...but rest assured, for me personally, neither are woking. I remember when you could get barely three figure gates and hat duck boards for terracing, never mind playing in the lower reaches of the Isthmian League. As for 'bumming around in the Isthmian League for a hundred years' well we've just left the Isthmian after a hundred years, and Hendon have moved sideways from it having been in it since 1964. And you know what...if we ever went down back into it I certainly wouldn't disrespect it by calling it 'bumming around'. But as you are really a National League National club I hope you enjoy 'bumming around' in the South Division'. Not that you'd ever 'bum around' in the Isthmian League...as you were 'only' members of it for eighty one years...including Division Two South...

    Finally, your last comment on money: "Having said that, we are trying to redevelop our stadium and this has been an ongoing saga for 20 years now. That's why we've not spent much on the ground. The poor matchday experience is a source of frustration for many of our fans, but the reality is that we don't have a limitless budget and we have to choose whether to spend it on the ground or spend it on players. The latter wins. Every time." therein lies the difference between you and me. Admitedly we are a club without any money to piss away, but I'd rather split it between ground and players for everyone to be happy, and grow at a sustainable level.

    You are clearly a club aiming to get right back up to Step Five, with delusions/ambitions of grandeur. Good luck to you and all that, but if it ever goes tits up...sorry, but I won't be too sympathetic.
    billbond, pettyboy, Ronco and 8 others like this.
  21. Cyclodunc

    Cyclodunc Where's the slam tent, mate?

    Last edited: Sep 21, 2018
  22. Lucy Fur

    Lucy Fur Well-Known Member

    good point, well made. :p
    clog, EDC, YTC and 2 others like this.
  23. editor

    editor hiraethified

    So the cavemen contingent from Woking have worked themselves into a formidable froth over my Buzz article, dribbling out a fiesta of clueless stereotypes (hipsters/posh/rich Hamlet fans etc) while spectacularly missing the point. If their club treats visiting supporters as second class citizens then they can't complain when those fans aren't impressed with being treated in that manner.

    Some random thoughts from Saturday - Page 3 - Cardboard
  24. editor

    editor hiraethified

    Can I just add that I'm still sooooo fucking glad we beat them. :D
  25. Charltonlaw

    Charltonlaw New Member

    I was looking forward to Woking v Dulwich remembering the old games in the Isthmian league. Good to see Dulwich doing well, good crowds, signed a petition for you about the ground... Didn't begrudge your win you deserved it. That was that and then i read the editors blog and it was just pompous claptrap... Reeking with a sense of entitlement and superiority. It summed up everything i hate about the new breed of arrivist football fan.. Been in the league 2 minutes and a negative opinion on everything except Dulwich. A lower league version of those who've just found the Premier League and think they have a right to have an opinion on everything. We could go through every element raised and why it's like that but it's not worth the effort. Woking is a small club struggling to make its way through.. Like most at this level. There are health, safety and police guidelines... Any way just to say that blog has actual shown the stereotypes probably are true and i am now a tooting fan.. A proper lower league club. Just wind it in, enjoy the football ... Maybe by the end of the season you might have an opinion worth something and habe learned there are some good things in this league.. And in all the club's... Even billericay
    alcopop and Jamie Wyatt like this.
  26. editor

    editor hiraethified

    Why I am 'entitled' if I complain that there's no food or drink available when I visit a ground? That's pretty basic hospitality.

    And all the stereotypes are coming from you

    Oh and I've been watching football for over 45 years.
    clog likes this.
  27. Charltonlaw

    Charltonlaw New Member

    Of course valid to raise issues but the whole tenor was pompous. If you've been involved in football for 45 years you'll know about SAG, safety certificates, no alcohol on terraces at some clubs, police advice on segregation, sterile areas, compulsory bag checks at sports venues... Sorry if you're veggy and they had nothing. Valid point.
  28. Roger D

    Roger D Well-Known Member

    One of our committee asked your committee in the boardroom why segregation was enforced. He was told it was not a police decision or a licencing condition but a WFC decision based on the expected away support. I accept the yellow hatching on the away side is a licencing condition btw. No issues with that, though some civil stewards would make a big difference in away fans perception.

    For what little it's worth I have lived in Aldershot for years now. In the unlikely event you don't go up this season, if we meet next season, I probably won't go. Why pay £15 if I don't enjoy the way I'm treated?

    I moved to London in 1991 and have watched Hamlet since then. In that time we have been segregated 4 times - Hereford in the Trophy, Braintree and Macclesfield in the Trophy last season and you. It's a culture clash. I grew up near Telford and have been to many Woking v Telford games, not segregated once.
    editor, StephenMac and Pink Panther like this.
  29. Cat Daisy

    Cat Daisy Active Member

    Hang on, weren't Welling in the National League / Conference recently? Don't remember the "no alcohol" thing there?

    I didn't read about the segregation at Woking, went through the home turnstiles and sampled the unatmospheric bar before having to exit the ground and walk round the outside to the right place. All the stewards en route were miserable - perhaps they are not being paid the minimum wage. Perhaps Woking should encourage them to treat everyone as valued customers?

    At least I was in the right place when the winning goal went in!
    editor likes this.
  30. Charltonlaw

    Charltonlaw New Member

    Yeah exactly. Every region has its safety officer separate to the club and the ground is given a safety certificate.ours stipulates no alcohol on the terraces. There were moves to insist on every game being segregated because of incidents... Apparently the club is on notice. Chatting to tooting fans ( who were great fun) before you ground shared Dulwich had a thuggish element who damaged their ground... Yes they used the words 'some posh thugs'.

    We are a small club who had a good 20 years but are limited by an old ground. ( hence redevelopment plans) Bar is old, no way of offering away fans alcohol although the snooker club does well. Yellow hatching... Seriously that upset you!.. Lucky you don't go to York or Stockport. The sterile area near our terrace.. Blame Aldershot. And arriving late and missing a goal.... Tough. Anyway i love my club, it's largely run by volunteers who work all the hours to keep it running and the ground in some sort of decent shape. Even though it gets a lot of games the pitch is superb and 99% of the club's have a great time here. Stewards should smile and club should see if there are any veggy options. Bye
    alcopop and Jamie Wyatt like this.
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