Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
I don’t think any section of the Scottish political class comes out of this looking good to be honest. The last thing motivating any of the actors seems to have been the feelings or interest of the alleged victims.
Without stepping into sub-judice territory, can anyone please explain the current Scottish Parliament business ?
- Thread starter gentlegreen
- Start date
I don’t think any section of the Scottish political class comes out of this looking good to be honest. The last thing motivating any of the actors seems to have been the feelings or interest of the alleged victims.
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
The way the process was handled was catastrophic, and the involvement of Murrell, Strugeon’s husband, does highlight what is quite an unhealthy situation at the heart of Scottish government. The first minister is married to the chief exec officer of the SNP. The muddiness of her account of the timeline of the complaints is complicated by that relationship.
Not that I think she conspired to bring down Salmond - she had no need. She’d been leader of the SNP and first minister for four years. He’d even lost his Westminster seat by the time of the allegations. He was a spent force languishing on a chat show on RT. Quite why anyone thinks a conspiracy was needed is beyond me. That’s not the issue. The issue is simple human failings.
Not that I think she conspired to bring down Salmond - she had no need. She’d been leader of the SNP and first minister for four years. He’d even lost his Westminster seat by the time of the allegations. He was a spent force languishing on a chat show on RT. Quite why anyone thinks a conspiracy was needed is beyond me. That’s not the issue. The issue is simple human failings.
steeplejack
seeing off the new ball
^^ exactly this
For latecomers please read the thread in the Scottish forum about this, most questions on here are chewed over in detail in there.
Unionist bigots are likely to be disappointed, however. This time last week they were fondly imagining that Salmond's "bombshell" appearance would be the ball bearings under the hooves of independence.
Alas, a week later, it seems to have rallied people to the cause, and whilst neutrals may look askance at Sturgeon's selective memory on certain key moments, she's done more than enough to see off immediate danger. She's been aided by Murdo Fraser, the original man-so-dense-that-light-bends-around-him, asking that appalling question with a demand for an apology for Salmond's behaviour.
For latecomers please read the thread in the Scottish forum about this, most questions on here are chewed over in detail in there.
Unionist bigots are likely to be disappointed, however. This time last week they were fondly imagining that Salmond's "bombshell" appearance would be the ball bearings under the hooves of independence.
Alas, a week later, it seems to have rallied people to the cause, and whilst neutrals may look askance at Sturgeon's selective memory on certain key moments, she's done more than enough to see off immediate danger. She's been aided by Murdo Fraser, the original man-so-dense-that-light-bends-around-him, asking that appalling question with a demand for an apology for Salmond's behaviour.
andysays
Love and solidarity
Had she actually asked anyone to trust Salmond over these allegations, or is he suggesting that she should apologise for suggesting in the past that he should be trusted with people's votes or similar?
Because unless she has explicitly done the former, which I'm not aware of, it still seems a bit of a cuntish question.
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
No.
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
Sturgeon cleared of breaking ministerial code by independent inquiry.
news.stv.tv
Nicola Sturgeon cleared of breaching ministerial code
Investigation by the independent code adviser James Hamilton QC publishes findings.
steeplejack
seeing off the new ball
mauvais
on reddit or something
I mean, I probably know the answer really, but why is it still plodding on today?
www.theguardian.com
We're seemingly into 'yes but what about unknowingly' territory now.
Nicola Sturgeon accused of misleading parliament over Alex Salmond
Holyrood committee highly critical of Scottish first minister’s accounts of meeting with former mentor
We're seemingly into 'yes but what about unknowingly' territory now.
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
Och, because the political bubble has its head up its collective arses really.I mean, I probably know the answer really, but why is it still plodding on today?
Nicola Sturgeon accused of misleading parliament over Alex Salmond
Holyrood committee highly critical of Scottish first minister’s accounts of meeting with former mentor
We're seemingly into 'yes but what about unknowingly' territory now.
I had fun yesterday watching the StuAnon crowd losing their shit on Twitter. But they’re basically a tiny faction of Internet crazies. Their big heroes, though, like Iain Lawson and Kenny McAskill, are the old guard of the SNP’s former leadership ousted by Sturgeon.
That old guard of Big Beasts are still smarting at being dropped by Sturgeon, and at what they perceive as Sturgeon’s more gradualist approach to independence. (Translated: Sturgeon has been taking time to manoeuvre so that an indyref2 would hold water in international relations terms, whereas the Old Guard believe she should have rushed it through already or declared UDI or some other more swift plan).
The media on the other hand is still tied to the old Labour pro Union establishment. Amazingly, given the SNP’s dominance, there is only one small and recent newspaper that supports the SNP. BBC Scotland’s political correspondent for example is a daughter of the late John Smith. They were very keen on Sturgeon being condemned by Hamilton, and have found it impossible to hide their disappointment. They were clearly hoping the run in to the May elections were going to be worse for the SNP.
For what it’s worth, the whole thing is fascinating only to people in the bubble. Nobody in the street gives a fuck. Or even really understands what’s been going on. To me, the big thing now is the way the women at the centre of it have been let down. Shamefully their supposedly confidential evidence to the Holyrood committee was leaked to the press. That is far, far worse behaviour than Sturgeon’s fuzziness over which day she first heard the allegations.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Yes, something that has become completely lost in the noise. Who would ever report sex harassment or bullying among the Scottish political class again? Who could put themselves through what these women have?
Both the cloying worship to the cult of Sturgeon and the palpable sense of disappointment among the pro union hacks is, bluntly, sickening in the circumstances.
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
Exactly.
One of the striking things about the SNP (or more accurately, Yes movement) split, is how centred around personality it is. Sturgeon right or wrong versus Salmond right or wrong. Not a healthy thing at all.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
A fact that those keen to put all of the political eggs into the SNP/Yes basket really do need to reflect on
steeplejack
seeing off the new ball
It has become like that since all this stuff broke the surface a couple of years ago. As stated on another thread the opposition in Scotland is so chronically bad that the opposition most dangerous to the SNP leadership is within the SNP itself.
None of us who live in Scotland are remotely surprised by this. Power has always been vested in little self-sustaining cabals; mayoral chains, the Rotary Club, the Probus Business Lunch, the Chief Super's silver epaulettes, ornate Kirk robes and funny handshakes. Mediocre wee men sitting on five different committees in five different overlapping roles and dominating them all, appearing weekly in the local paper like political bindweed. At National level, lobbying culture is becoming very insidious and corrupt.
Unionist bigots will attempt to keep these events front and centre of the political agenda but they really needed yesterday's Hamilton report to condemn NS- it didn't. Today's committee report can easily be dismissed as divided on party lines and having made up its mind before the evidence was heard.
The SNP will win comfortably in May but it's no longer quite as clear that they will get a majority without Green support. A lot of people I know will vote for them again but with little enthusiasm. I am afraid also that there is no clear route to a second independence referendum and the pandemic has shredded any clear route to one for the foreseeable future- as has that prick Johnson's determination to ignore even an outright majority for independence at Holyrood. It's the lack of progress on a second referendum that is fuelling a lot of anger from roasters on the fringes of the Yes movement- well, that and transphobic opposition to the Gender Recognition Act.
The SNP would be wise not to take any renewed mandate in May as full endorsement- it plainly isn't. Should they get back in a lot of that will be down to a more humane and consistent handling of the pandemic crisis (a lot of Sturgeon's popularity derives from how she has conducted herself in the last 12 months re: Covid). The second reason is negative but just as powerful- Sturgeon is not the Tory party, or Boris Johnson. It's hard to overstate how much Johnson and the Tory government are detested by the vast majority in Scotland (regardless of their opinion of the SNP). The fact that even Anas Sarwar is distancing himself from the Tories utterly desperate vote of no confidence tells you all you need to know.
I think Nicola Sturgeon will go in about a year-18 months. Her husband should go immediately as SNP chief executive (his incompetence has fuelled much of this toxicity). Behind the scenes, a Humza Yousuf or Kate Forbes should be slowly being prepared to launch a campaign for the leadership and (probably) as next first minister.
If the SNP gets through this unscathed and with its power intact it will have done more than it dared hope for with all this stink around, frankly. Only time will tell if the party is capable of regenerating from within, with a new generatio of politicians, or whether the deep fissures in the organisation and lack of mutual trust between antagonistic groups can be healed up. The jury's out.
None of us who live in Scotland are remotely surprised by this. Power has always been vested in little self-sustaining cabals; mayoral chains, the Rotary Club, the Probus Business Lunch, the Chief Super's silver epaulettes, ornate Kirk robes and funny handshakes. Mediocre wee men sitting on five different committees in five different overlapping roles and dominating them all, appearing weekly in the local paper like political bindweed. At National level, lobbying culture is becoming very insidious and corrupt.
Unionist bigots will attempt to keep these events front and centre of the political agenda but they really needed yesterday's Hamilton report to condemn NS- it didn't. Today's committee report can easily be dismissed as divided on party lines and having made up its mind before the evidence was heard.
The SNP will win comfortably in May but it's no longer quite as clear that they will get a majority without Green support. A lot of people I know will vote for them again but with little enthusiasm. I am afraid also that there is no clear route to a second independence referendum and the pandemic has shredded any clear route to one for the foreseeable future- as has that prick Johnson's determination to ignore even an outright majority for independence at Holyrood. It's the lack of progress on a second referendum that is fuelling a lot of anger from roasters on the fringes of the Yes movement- well, that and transphobic opposition to the Gender Recognition Act.
The SNP would be wise not to take any renewed mandate in May as full endorsement- it plainly isn't. Should they get back in a lot of that will be down to a more humane and consistent handling of the pandemic crisis (a lot of Sturgeon's popularity derives from how she has conducted herself in the last 12 months re: Covid). The second reason is negative but just as powerful- Sturgeon is not the Tory party, or Boris Johnson. It's hard to overstate how much Johnson and the Tory government are detested by the vast majority in Scotland (regardless of their opinion of the SNP). The fact that even Anas Sarwar is distancing himself from the Tories utterly desperate vote of no confidence tells you all you need to know.
I think Nicola Sturgeon will go in about a year-18 months. Her husband should go immediately as SNP chief executive (his incompetence has fuelled much of this toxicity). Behind the scenes, a Humza Yousuf or Kate Forbes should be slowly being prepared to launch a campaign for the leadership and (probably) as next first minister.
If the SNP gets through this unscathed and with its power intact it will have done more than it dared hope for with all this stink around, frankly. Only time will tell if the party is capable of regenerating from within, with a new generatio of politicians, or whether the deep fissures in the organisation and lack of mutual trust between antagonistic groups can be healed up. The jury's out.
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