Without stepping into sub-judice territory, can anyone please explain the current Scottish Parliament business ?

[PR1Berske]

It's certainly narrativly convenient for the anti-Independence campaigns that the SNP is eating itself so publicly.

 

[danny la rouge]

Several women accused AS of sexual offences. Sturgeon promised AS she would help cover it up to protect the SNP project. He then got acquitted and accused her of offering to help the cover up?
Today she had really bad liar body language and speech.

That’s not an accurate reading. It’s all on the other thread. Literally don’t have the strength to go through it though.

Basically Salmond thought Sturgeon should make it go away but she wanted to be seen to be doing something, and then made a hash of the something. Salmond is furious.

Meanwhile, and separately, there is disquiet amongst the Wings Over Scotland faction that Sturgeon hasn’t unilaterally declared Scottish independence already. They long for their king over the water, Salmond, to come back and do magic (that he was unable to do before but they feel he can do now).

The two things coalesce into StuAnon: the theory that Sturgeon is a deep state anti independence plant who plotted to bring down Salmond in order to scuttle independence.

This is utterly bonkers. What really happened was that Salmond was a handsy creep and the Scot Parl/Sturgeon process was flawed.

Meanwhile a bubble of invested activists and zealots think this is the only topic that exists. To the person in the street it’s nothing of the sort. If they have an opinion at all it’s “fuck sake”.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

There are several fights going on - a he said/she said fight between some personality cults, a fight between the Scottish parliament and the Scottish government, and another fight between the Scottish parliament and some elements of the Scottish State apparatus.

Some of it looks dodgy as fuck, there's some deeply unpleasant people on all sides, and the hypocrisy is at stratospheric levels.

Yes, that was the impression I got when I tried to read about it today. Sturgeon's excuse for not remembering a meeting is a stretch, it has to be said. But then why should we care?

It's that politician thing of admitting to being thick rather than admit that you lied, however little that lie really matters in the scheme of things.

• Nicola Sturgeon says she initially forgot about a key meeting with one of Alex Salmond’s aides on 29 March 2018 – and even now the memory of the meeting is not as “vivid as I would like it to be”.
• She says Alex Salmond’s comments during a meeting at her home on 2 April “obliterated” what came before because what he told her then about sexual harassment allegations was “so significant that it will live with me forever".

Doesn't ring true at all, but I guess this is the line she and her lawyers have come up with to avoid admitting the lie.

I'm still struggling to care, but they all look awful. Sturgeon is damaged but survives?

 

[brogdale]

That’s not an accurate reading. It’s all on the other thread. Literally don’t have the strength to go through it though.

Basically Salmond thought Sturgeon should make it go away but she wanted to be seen to be doing something, and then made a hash of the something. Salmond is furious.

Meanwhile, and separately, there is disquiet amongst the Wings Over Scotland faction that Sturgeon hasn’t unilaterally declared Scottish independence already. They long for their king over the water, Salmond, to come back and do magic (that he was unable to do before but they feel he can do now).

The two things coalesce into StuAnon: the theory that Sturgeon is a deep state anti independence plant who plotted to bring down Salmond in order to scuttle independence.

This is utterly bonkers. What really happened was that Salmond was a handsy creep and the Scot Parl/Sturgeon process was flawed.

Meanwhile a bubble of invested activists and zealots think this is the only topic that exists. To the person in the street it’s nothing of the sort. If they have an opinion at all it’s “fuck sake”.

Useful; thanks.

 

[TopCat]

That’s not an accurate reading. It’s all on the other thread. Literally don’t have the strength to go through it though.

Basically Salmond thought Sturgeon should make it go away but she wanted to be seen to be doing something, and then made a hash of the something. Salmond is furious.

Meanwhile, and separately, there is disquiet amongst the Wings Over Scotland faction that Sturgeon hasn’t unilaterally declared Scottish independence already. They long for their king over the water, Salmond, to come back and do magic (that he was unable to do before but they feel he can do now).

The two things coalesce into StuAnon: the theory that Sturgeon is a deep state anti independence plant who plotted to bring down Salmond in order to scuttle independence.

This is utterly bonkers. What really happened was that Salmond was a handsy creep and the Scot Parl/Sturgeon process was flawed.

Meanwhile a bubble of invested activists and zealots think this is the only topic that exists. To the person in the street it’s nothing of the sort. If they have an opinion at all it’s “fuck sake”.

Ta.

 

[andysays]

Several women accused AS of sexual offences. Sturgeon promised AS she would help cover it up to protect the SNP project. He then got acquitted and accused her of offering to help the cover up?
Today she had really bad liar body language and speech.

Is this bit correct?

If it is, she seems to be denying that or at least back pedalling now

Ms Sturgeon also denied claims that she had told Mr Salmond she would be willing to intervene in the case if necessary. But she said Mr Salmond had been a "long-standing friend and colleague", and she had therefore tried to let him down gently when he made the request - and accepted that she may not have been frank enough.

The first minister added: "I did not intend to intervene, and I did not intervene, and while I know it is more complex than this, I think in terms of his anger towards me I think that is the root of it with Mr Salmond."

 

[killer b]

What change will it lead to? Who would fill the vacuum?

It's not going to lead to any change - this has been bubbling under for months and in the open for weeks, yet Sturgeon remains wildly popular, and the party she leads is still on course to win a majority at the next SP elections. It's quite difficult to get a handle on what exactly it is she's supposed to have done wrong, so most people won't bother.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Why do you have the Scotland forum on ignore?

Ive been over there looking for square sausage based discussion but couldn’t find any so concluded it was shit...

 

[weepiper]

That’s not an accurate reading. It’s all on the other thread. Literally don’t have the strength to go through it though.

Basically Salmond thought Sturgeon should make it go away but she wanted to be seen to be doing something, and then made a hash of the something. Salmond is furious.

Meanwhile, and separately, there is disquiet amongst the Wings Over Scotland faction that Sturgeon hasn’t unilaterally declared Scottish independence already. They long for their king over the water, Salmond, to come back and do magic (that he was unable to do before but they feel he can do now).

The two things coalesce into StuAnon: the theory that Sturgeon is a deep state anti independence plant who plotted to bring down Salmond in order to scuttle independence.

This is utterly bonkers. What really happened was that Salmond was a handsy creep and the Scot Parl/Sturgeon process was flawed.

Meanwhile a bubble of invested activists and zealots think this is the only topic that exists. To the person in the street it’s nothing of the sort. If they have an opinion at all it’s “fuck sake”.

This is an excellent synopsis.

 

[weepiper]

It's not going to lead to any change - this has been bubbling under for months and in the open for weeks, yet Sturgeon remains wildly popular, and the party she leads is still on course to win a majority at the next SP elections. It's quite difficult to get a handle on what exactly it is she's supposed to have done wrong, so most people won't bother.

Regardless of whatever mistakes she may have made in the inquiry, there's noone else I'd rather have in charge of the country, especially now. Look at the alternatives. Douglas Ross? Jackie Baillie? Alex Cole Hamilton? They're having a laugh.

 

[killer b]

How much of the SNP's current popularity is a personal vote for Sturgeon do you think? I'm afraid I've never even heard of the alternatives you mention, let alone have a measure of their leadership potential... In the unlikely event of Sturgeon being heaved out by this, would the SNP be in trouble?

 

[weepiper]

How much of the SNP's current popularity is a personal vote for Sturgeon do you think? I'm afraid I've never even heard of the alternatives you mention, let alone have a measure of their leadership potential... In the unlikely event of Sturgeon being heaved out by this, would the SNP be in trouble?

They are the current leader of the Scottish Tories, the current deputy/sometime acting leader of Scottish Labour and a vocal Lib Dem MSP who was questioning Nicola Sturgeon today.

I do think that Nicola Sturgeon has massively increased the popularity of the SNP, but so has the current Westminster government. And I feel that if she did get the heave ho it would probably have the effect of further cementing the independence vote rather than anything else (as a reaction to the perceived injustice)

 

[danny la rouge]

How much of the SNP's current popularity is a personal vote for Sturgeon do you think? I'm afraid I've never even heard of the alternatives you mention, let alone have a measure of their leadership potential... In the unlikely event of Sturgeon being heaved out by this, would the SNP be in trouble?

From the SNP Kate Forbes and Humza Yousaf are the most polished, but neither is particularly well known. John Swinney was leader before: he seems nice but a bit bumbly. Not leader material. Mike Mathieson I used to know when I was a student, he’s clever but not really a charismatic personality. So, no, nobody has had the chance to grow in Sturgeon’s shadow.

The folk weepiper mentions are from other parties. Nobody who isn’t a nerd knows who they are.

 

[danny la rouge]

(I see I’d misspelled Humza Yousaf’s given name. I’ve put that right).

 

[Sue]

They are the current leader of the Scottish Tories, the current deputy/sometime acting leader of Scottish Labour and a vocal Lib Dem MSP who was questioning Nicola Sturgeon today.

I do think that Nicola Sturgeon has massively increased the popularity of the SNP, but so has the current Westminster government. And I feel that if she did get the heave ho it would probably have the effect of further cementing the independence vote rather than anything else (as a reaction to the perceived injustice)

Yep. And for anyone who's wondering, Salmond's nowhere. He comes out of this really badly whatever.

 

[hitmouse]

I reckon now's the time for Tommy Sheridan to make a comeback. I reckon he has the maturity, levelheadness, humility, and general sound judgement to help sort this whole situation out.

 

[Sue]

I reckon now's the time for Tommy Sheridan to make a comeback. I reckon he has the maturity, levelheadness, humility, and general sound judgement to help sort this whole situation out.

I have never seen a situation so dismal that Tommy Sheridan couldn't make it worse...

 

[danny la rouge]

Thanks. That gave me a laugh.

 

[danny la rouge]

This is a clip I’ve just seen of Sturgeon responding to questions about Salmond’s behaviour, including being asked to apologise for his behaviour.

Whatever you think of Sturgeon, why the fuck would she be expected to apologise for his behaviour, (especially since she didn’t do what he wanted and make it go away)?

ETA: sorry, embedding incompetence: I’m referring to the second video. I haven’t watched the first.

 

[Sasaferrato]

There are several fights going on - a he said/she said fight between some personality cults, a fight between the Scottish parliament and the Scottish government, and another fight between the Scottish parliament and some elements of the Scottish State apparatus.

Some of it looks dodgy as fuck, there's some deeply unpleasant people on all sides, and the hypocrisy is at stratospheric levels.

Indeed.

As I seem to be incapable of rationality on this subject, this thread is on ignore, and I have requested a thread ban for another.

 

[killer b]

Indeed.

As I seem to be incapable of rationality on this subject, this thread is on ignore, and I have requested a thread ban for another.

Going to have to get a ban from the whole Scottish forum come May.

 

[weepiper]

This is a clip I’ve just seen of Sturgeon responding to questions about Salmond’s behaviour, including being asked to apologise for his behaviour.

Whatever you think of Sturgeon, why the fuck would she be expected to apologise for his behaviour, (especially since she didn’t do what he wanted and make it go away)?

ETA: sorry, embedding incompetence: I’m referring to the second video. I haven’t watched the first.

She was (rightly) incensed about this during FMQs yesterday.

 

[andysays]

This is a clip I’ve just seen of Sturgeon responding to questions about Salmond’s behaviour, including being asked to apologise for his behaviour.

Whatever you think of Sturgeon, why the fuck would she be expected to apologise for his behaviour, (especially since she didn’t do what he wanted and make it go away)?

ETA: sorry, embedding incompetence: I’m referring to the second video. I haven’t watched the first.

Who was asking her to apologise for him?

 

[Spymaster]

Who was asking her to apologise for him?

She wasn't really. She swerved 'do you owe the people of Scotland an apology for asking them to trust AS?', with 'I won't apologise for his behaviour'. It's the old politician's answer-a-different-question trick. Quite nicely played, tbf.

 

[danny la rouge]

Who was asking her to apologise for him?

Tory MSP Murdo Fraser.

 

[danny la rouge]

She wasn't really. She swerved 'do you owe the people of Scotland an apology for asking them to trust AS?', with 'I won't apologise for his behaviour'. It's the old politician's answer-a-different-question trick. Quite nicely played, tbf.

I see what you’re saying, but it kind of was asking her to take responsibility for his behaviour. I’m not defending the way the process was handled. I think the complainants were badly let down. But one thing Sturgeon didn’t do was help Salmond make the problem go away.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

I think the complainants were badly let down.

That seems to have been completely overlooked by all sides and the media. How must those women feel? What civil servant or worker at the Parliament would dare complain about harassment, bullying, discrimination now after this shitshow?

 

[weepiper]

That seems to have been completely overlooked by all sides and the media. How must those women feel? What civil servant or worker at the Parliament would dare complain about harassment, bullying, discrimination now after this shitshow?

Nicola Sturgeon mentioned them repeatedly during the questioning and again at FMQs yesterday. I agree that they have become completely lost in the media and to Alex Salmond and the Tories (except to use as a stick to beat the SNP with).

 

[danny la rouge]

That seems to have been completely overlooked by all sides and the media. How must those women feel? What civil servant or worker at the Parliament would dare complain about harassment, bullying, discrimination now after this shitshow?

Exactly.

 

[danny la rouge]

Nicola Sturgeon mentioned them repeatedly during the questioning and again at FMQs yesterday. I agree that they have become completely lost in the media and to Alex Salmond and the Tories (except to use as a stick to beat the SNP with).

To StuAnon, they’re deep state agents who were lying to bring down Salmond. Which just underlines the misogyny from that quarter.