teuchter
je suis teuchter
What about the working woman?
Will you support the posties until...
- Thread starter Lo Siento.
- Start date
What about the working woman?
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
Should be in the kitchen etc.
Callum91
Let them eat cock
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
why no public poll?
Fedayn
Well-Known Member
NURSE.... NURSE... He's out of bed again!!!
marty21
One on one? You're crazy.
It's not about me, it's about people, particularly in isolated areas, or who are housebound. The Royal Mail is an amazing institution and we'll miss it as a nation when it's gone. It will go because the Powers That Be know the cost of everything and the value of nothing. Look what happened to Post Offices
couldn't say it better
Frankie Jack
Not a bloke..
I've been inconvenienced.. Ny ESA was late by four (over a weekend ) days because my sick note didn't get through in time.. Still.. That's more the fault of outdated benefits system than the posties.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
Yeah, what lunacy to suggest that people who fund an operation are complicit in the deeds and misdeeds of that operation. NURSE...NURSE...bring out the Doublethink Koolaid.
Fedayn
Well-Known Member
Oi silly bollocks, when you're within 50 miles of the point let me know there's a love.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Don't be a prat. Thousands of CWU members have opted out of the politial fund and there's loads of support for full disaffiliation from labour. In your frothing desire for purity you effectively side with those who want to get rid of the established postal service, leaving those people mentioned about without it and the rest of us in a significantly poorer position. You have no idea how politics works do you? How you make political criticisms in a manner that's likely to get them taken seriously. You'd be laughed out of every branch meeting with this stupid approach - actually, it's not only stupid, it's dangerous, or would be if many people thought like you did. Thnakfully they don't.
You remind me of those other prats who refused to support the miners because there were sexist attitudes in their communities.You don't actually understand how unions work either - what their function is an dhow they differ from political parties. But, if you do want to play the game of making all members of an organisation complict with all thinsg that happen within it (whether by popular support, beaucratic fiat or plain simple tradition) then i charge you with anti-semitism and propogating the Protocaols of the Elders of Zion - you are in the same party as Tony Gosling after all.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
butchers
Thousands of CWU members have opted out of the politial fund and there's loads of support for full disaffiliation from labour.
Presumably if the majority didnt want it it would have been hoofed out. Yes I understand that a substantial minority disapprove, and I appreciate that. I can also detatch my disagreement on this issue from supporting what they are standing for in the current dispute. But i cant and wont ignore the double standards.
"You don't actually understand how unions work either" - I've been in enough thanks. I understand too many of them are up the Labour Party's arse and very fond of phoney left posturing.
You cite my approach as "dangerous", as dangerous as filth who wanted us eyescanned for a monitoring database? As dangerous as selling out future generations to bankers and calling it "socialist"? The other one has bells on chum.
I'd probably be heavily criticised for my approach because so many unionists are still drivelling apologists for right wing crap so long as it's done in the name of their sacred tribe.
And Gosling, as I understand it, has been kicked out. Every party has occasional nutters, Labour are a party of war, privatisation and authoritarianism to a degree far beyond that. The CWU funnel quite a lot cash to them. No escaping it.
Thousands of CWU members have opted out of the politial fund and there's loads of support for full disaffiliation from labour.
Presumably if the majority didnt want it it would have been hoofed out. Yes I understand that a substantial minority disapprove, and I appreciate that. I can also detatch my disagreement on this issue from supporting what they are standing for in the current dispute. But i cant and wont ignore the double standards.
"You don't actually understand how unions work either" - I've been in enough thanks. I understand too many of them are up the Labour Party's arse and very fond of phoney left posturing.
You cite my approach as "dangerous", as dangerous as filth who wanted us eyescanned for a monitoring database? As dangerous as selling out future generations to bankers and calling it "socialist"? The other one has bells on chum.
I'd probably be heavily criticised for my approach because so many unionists are still drivelling apologists for right wing crap so long as it's done in the name of their sacred tribe.
And Gosling, as I understand it, has been kicked out. Every party has occasional nutters, Labour are a party of war, privatisation and authoritarianism to a degree far beyond that. The CWU funnel quite a lot cash to them. No escaping it.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Well you made zero attempt to detach it earlier. Hence the reactions to your disgusting first post. What double standards are there in posties figting for their jobs, to defend their conditions and to defend a serive millions rely utterly on and the CWU being afiliated to labour. They're two different questions. There's zero need to link them, certainly not enough to waver for one second on supporting the strikers and their aims.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
The double standards of an organisation funding a right wing party and whinging about the consequences?
As I said in my last post, if the majority of members didnt want the affiliation they could presumably break it (though I admit many a union is highly undemocratic, especially when it comes to keeping Labour funding - see the ridiculous victimisation of the Socialist Party reps recently. The Labour crossover at the high end of a lot of unions is essentially corrupt.)
And again, anything "disgusting" I say is not nearly as disgusting as the myriad of betrayals and offences commited by a party funded by postal workers, and no doubt voted for by many postal workers.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
If the members want to opt out of the political levy they can. In the meantime whether they do or not is not really fundamental to whether people should continue supporting them or not - which they should, without this smokescreen.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
No you moron, look beyond the organisations, look at the people who'll be addversely affected if the warmongering posties lose, 99.9999% of them not or having a damn thing to do with the CWU or donations to labour. Look beyond the end of your selfish purity and realise what the hell this is about. I notice now you're extending your refusal of solidarity beyond members of labour affliliated unions to people who voted labour.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
Just for clarity: I support the postal workers in their struggle for decent pay and conditions, and the fight to keep Post Offices fully in the public sector for the interests of the broader community.
Labour do not. Many a postal worker and their union support Labour. Double standards which shouldnt be swept under the carpet. Stockholm Syndrome: as I said on another thread I got flamed for.
Labour do not. Many a postal worker and their union support Labour. Double standards which shouldnt be swept under the carpet. Stockholm Syndrome: as I said on another thread I got flamed for.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
Butchers
People who vote Labour are endorsing an array of unholy crap I wont go into now, and hardly need to. It is them who are not in solidarity (except with bankers and the like).
I know this is getting to be a distraction from the main point, but in a way it is highly linked to it: Without 12 years of apologism for neo-liberalism from the phoney left the postal workers might not be under these attacks now.
People who vote Labour are endorsing an array of unholy crap I wont go into now, and hardly need to. It is them who are not in solidarity (except with bankers and the like).
I know this is getting to be a distraction from the main point, but in a way it is highly linked to it: Without 12 years of apologism for neo-liberalism from the phoney left the postal workers might not be under these attacks now.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
That's right, people who are today in life-or-death battle against labour for the good of us all are warmongering stooges unlike the vision of floating perfection with no blemishes that you present. Apart of course from you tacitly campaigning for labour last june.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
The vast majority of my campaigning (not June, but a slightly earlier council bye) was for a specific other party as well you know. My one session of UAF stuff was for a ward-election where the fascists thankfully didnt do too well. I joined in because all my parties leaflets had already gone out.
UAF do not explicitly endorse any party, though I made clear to them at their conference that their approach is a failed strategy (they should IMO advise on the political landscape of any given voting area). I was the only platform speaker to make any specific critique of strategy at all btw.
I accept that in that case and others there was an implicit vote labour message which did make me feel rather bad.
not going to go over all of that again now (bugger -just did
)Yes postal workers are in a battle against Labour policy at the moment, whereas generally the union is an ongoing direct enabler of Labour. It's absolutely absurd.
ETA: I'll rather leave it there for this thread. Made my point, and Butchers and others have made theirs. Dont want to derail it any further and I will return to the point of union double standards anon.
I'll support them forever and a day.
I got talking to a neighbour about his thirty years working at the local sorting office in the 70s/80s/90s. They regularly had managers on the gantry with binoculars and a stop-watch timing how many items each person was sorting and management picking-on people all over the shop.
If a member got picked-on there would be a meeting on the front-steps, a vote and, if voted for, a walkout until it was resolved (even after the employment law changes on ballots and strikes). The matter would usually get resolved within an hour or two.
He loved knowing that if he ever got fucked about by the management then his workmates would intervene and walkout until he got left alone. And that he would do the same if any of his workmates were getting picked-on.
That reliance on each other and on a collective strength is a beautiful thing. Anyone with any sense knows that we're all fucked without it.
I got talking to a neighbour about his thirty years working at the local sorting office in the 70s/80s/90s. They regularly had managers on the gantry with binoculars and a stop-watch timing how many items each person was sorting and management picking-on people all over the shop.
If a member got picked-on there would be a meeting on the front-steps, a vote and, if voted for, a walkout until it was resolved (even after the employment law changes on ballots and strikes). The matter would usually get resolved within an hour or two.
He loved knowing that if he ever got fucked about by the management then his workmates would intervene and walkout until he got left alone. And that he would do the same if any of his workmates were getting picked-on.
That reliance on each other and on a collective strength is a beautiful thing. Anyone with any sense knows that we're all fucked without it.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/index.php/news/britain/Are-you-listening-yet-Mr-Crozier
I'd like to apologise for laying it on too thick earlier. It was indeed not comradely. I made my point but should now save that quibble for another day, and I accept much of the crititicism that came from Butchers and others.
I'd like to apologise for laying it on too thick earlier. It was indeed not comradely. I made my point but should now save that quibble for another day, and I accept much of the crititicism that came from Butchers and others.
The Black Hand
Unclean
Just a couple of points, who was it who said
'the ruling ideas of every epoch are the ideas of the ruling class'. and this infects workers movements too.I was speaking to active Trade Union postal workers in Sheffield this summer, and my first question was 'when are you disaffiliating from Labour?'
Rather than being seen as an unnecessarily provocative question, it was something they had thought about, and their answer was 'disaffiliate when/if they privatise'.
For those who haven't seen it, here is a great postal workers support posters to print out/copy;
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/media/2009/10//440492.pdf
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
I support the striking posties (obviously) - but this thread is making me think, what kind of victory is possible for the CWU in this dispute? At best a moraturium on unilateral "modernisation" from on high, respite from bullying management, some kind of commitment on pensions, and some union involvement in future restructuring proposals [of course this would not be negligble in the sense that it would demonstrate to other workers the potential power of industrial action].
But Crozier et al are hardly going to be convinced to put a public service ethos ahead of commercial motives; New Labour aren't going to require management to listen to the public's views on the postal service; nor are the Tories going to feel bound by anything that it is agreed.
But Crozier et al are hardly going to be convinced to put a public service ethos ahead of commercial motives; New Labour aren't going to require management to listen to the public's views on the postal service; nor are the Tories going to feel bound by anything that it is agreed.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
i am affected by this more than just about everyone on here, but so what, they are completely justified so RESPECT!!
very good point, YEARS ago the unions shoulda all gotten together and said "right the finances are gonna be pulled if.."
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