Will to power

[Dillinger4]

same question: why does the fact they will become nothing mean they are worthless now?

Interestingly, Nietsczhe examined the idea of 'Eternal Return' (if you have ever read The Unbearable Lightness of Being you will know all about this).

He concluded that the fact we do not live in an endless cycle of life and death means that our actions and experiences as humans are worthless.

 

[nosos]

Right, so now you get why i don't want them to be destroyed, and my upcoming destruction is horrible and hangs over me.

So you value them now. Rather than despairing over the fact they won't last for ever.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Right, so now you get why i don't want them to be destroyed, and my upcoming destruction is horrible and hangs over me.

But it will happen inevitably, so you can either adjust your worldview so that you can live with it or even embrace it, or you can be miserable. Simple as that.

 

[Dillinger4]

Right, so now you get why i don't want them to be destroyed, and my upcoming destruction is horrible and hangs over me.

What makes you so special that your death would be so awful?

Some people consider death liberating.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

What makes you so special that your death would be so awful?

Some people consider death liberating.

Maybe if they've got cancer or something.

 

[drews]

Interestingly, Nietsczhe examined the idea of 'Eternal Return' (if you have ever read The Unbearable Lightness of Being you will know all about this).

He concluded that the fact we do not live in an endless cycle of life and death means that our actions and experiences as humans are worthless.

Bingo. See, he agrees with me.

 

[drews]

Finally I get you guys to admit death is bad and it would be better without it. As you have in the past few posts admitted.

Was that so hard? shit

 

[nosos]

He concluded that the fact we do not live in an endless cycle of life and death means that our actions and experiences as humans are worthless.

no he didn't. he concluded that someone who could live an eternally recurring life and embrace it was an overman who could embarce eterenity in spite of the fact that every event would recur infinitely and there would be no novelty. the overman is one who has conquered nihlism by being able to affirm life in its entirety rather than running away into despair and longing for god.

he wasn't an advocate of nihilism. he was his firmest critic. he was simply scared that with the death of god man would succumb to it.

 

[Dillinger4]

Bingo. See, he agrees with me.

I don't agree, and from reading The Unbearable Lightness of Being, I am not sure Milan Kundera would agree either.

 

[Dillinger4]

no he didn't. he concluded that someone who could live an eternally recurring life and embrace it was an overman who could embarce eterenity in spite of the fact that every event would recur infinitely and there would be no novelty. the overman is one who has conquered nihlism by being able to affirm life in its entirety rather than running away into despair and longing for god.

he wasn't an advocate of nihilism. he was his firmest critic. he was simply scared that with the death of god man would succumb to it.

I think my first post was a little to simplistic.

For you see, I am drunk, and arguing from the second page of the Unbearable Lightness of Being itself, so I stand corrected.

 

[nosos]

It's a really important point that bears so much on the mistake Drew is making. Drew is exactly what Nietzsche was afraid man would become through secularization and science. People who with God's death could not move beyond the yearning for God even when it was exposed as a comforting myth.

Incidently this is also why people accuse relativists of being nihilists.

 

[drews]

no he didn't. he concluded that someone who could live an eternally recurring life and embrace it was an overman who could embarce eterenity in spite of the fact that every event would recur infinitely and there would be no novelty. the overman is one who has conquered nihlism by being able to affirm life in its entirety rather than running away into despair and longing for god.

he wasn't an advocate of nihilism. he was his firmest critic. he was simply scared that with the death of god man would succumb to it.

Even if that recurring cycle thing was reality, I still would fear death b/c dying and then being reborn means your slate is wiped clean, which is as good as death. It's a nifty idea though.

 

[drews]

It's a really important point that bears so much on the mistake Drew is making. Drew is exactly what Nietzsche was afraid man would become through secularization and science. People who with God's death could not move beyond the yearning for God even when it was exposed as a comforting myth.

Incidently this is also why people accuse relativists of being nihilists.

Man naturally has a yearning for JPELCU, so even after god is dead, we still yearn for JPELCU. At least I and fellow members of the Spiritual Types group I mentioned earlier do, and we can't stop yearning. Schopenhauer, Zapffe, and others were just like me. We can't stop yearning for JPELCU, even though we know god is dead. Yearning for JPELCU is the price we pay for being apes who are too smart for their own good. And, as Zapffe said, there will never be an answer.

 

[nosos]

I still would fear death b/c dying and then being reborn means your slate is wiped clean, which is as good as death.

no it doesn't. the point is that you would knowingly experience eternity.

-- What, if some day or night a demon were to steal after you into your loneliest loneliness and say to you: 'This life as you now live it and have lived it, you will have to live once more and innumerable times more; and there will be nothing new in it, but every pain and every joy and every thought and sigh and everything unutterably small or great in your live will have to return to you, all in the same succession and sequence--even this spider and this moonlight between the trees, and even this moment and I myself. The eternal hourglass of existence is turned upside down again and again, and you with it, speck of dust!'

so even after god is dead, we still yearn for JPELCU. '

no they won't. only people like you will. people who are too scared of life to live it.

also

oh fuck off

any more of these self-pitying toilet threads and you're banned - you've already got plenty of threads already, all about the same thing, and we don't need the spam thank you

(c) fridge magnet (two days ago)

 

[goldenecitrone]

Schopenhauer posited a "will to live," in which living things were motivated by sustaining and developing their own lives. Nietzsche instead posited a will to power, a significant point of contrast to Schopenhauer's ideation, in which living things are not just driven by the mere need to stay alive, but in fact by a greater need to wield and use power, to grow, to expend their strength, and, possibly, to subsume other "wills" in the process. Thus, Nietzsche regarded such a "will to live" as secondary to the primary "will to power"

So what am i supposed to do if i live my life the way nietzsche said i should?

Easy, become a teacher.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

no they won't. only people like you will. people who are too scared of life to live it.
)

Which is a lot of people.

 

[MightyAphrodite]

Right, so now you get why i don't want them to be destroyed, and my upcoming destruction is horrible and hangs over me.

what the fuck is the matter with you man?

you said people should stop having kids so everyone would be dead and the earth would be free of people in about 100 years, now you say 'wah wah i dont wanna die'


while im on it, how do you suggest 100-110 year olds go out and kill fuckin tigers and shit like that...

im 34 and couldnt kill a fuckin lion...how in the hell do you reckon a 100 year old would? death by zimmer frame?

 

[nosos]

Which is a lot of people.

no. a lot of people sometimes or often feel like that. very few reflectively embrace it.

 

[CJohn]

Since we're headed towards annihilation, nothing means anything

On the contrary death gives life meaning. What would be the point in life if it was infinite? It is the very fact that we have a limited time that gives choice - and hence freedom - any meaning. A beginning and an end focuses us on now; how do I live, what should I become, what is a satisfying life, what and who will I commit myself to…

I think the subtext to your post is that you desparately want meaning and coherence in your life, that you're depressed by the lack of it.

 

[drews]

On the contrary death gives life meaning. What would be the point in life if it was infinite? It is the very fact that we have a limited time that gives choice - and hence freedom - any meaning. A beginning and an end focuses us on now; how do I live, what should I become, what is a satisfying life, what and who will I commit myself to…

I think the subtext to your post is that you desparately want meaning and coherence in your life, that you're depressed by the lack of it.

I just want JPELCU. I've shouted that from the rooftops, so I don't think it's a subtext.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

no. a lot of people sometimes or often feel like that. very few reflectively embrace it.

I think many people want JCEPLU, or whatever it is. I think many people fear death. I think many people yearn for an afterlife or reincarnation etc, in order to give meaning to their existence.

 

[rhys gethin]

All that I am will go to nothing, all my personality and knowledge and memories become nothing.

that sucks. it's horrifying, horrible, and negates me and my life. sure, i won't be consciously suffering, but I'll be unconscious forever. That's horrible. We are all headed to nothing.

If 'you' go on forever you will continue to have the same illusions that 'you' exist as you have now - meanwhile forgetting more and more of the earlier fantasized 'you' as you fantasize inumerable new ones. What actually happens is a series of thoughts, sensations and so forth floating through a 'consciousness' that is muddled and intermittent and which won't take serious looking at as a continuity. Give up all this Nineteenth Century drama and take up meditation, examine what actually goes on and free yourself of all this nonsense: it is just a religious hangover, like so much in our culture.

 

[drews]

I think many people want JCEPLU, or whatever it is. I think many people fear death. I think many people yearn for an afterlife or reincarnation etc, in order to give meaning to their existence.

Thanks for being one of the only ones here to recognize the truth.

Man is a tragic animal, b/c, as an ape that's too smart for his own good, he yearns for JPELCU in a universe that can't give him JPELCU. Not to mention that millions suffer horribly, too.

Is it any wonder why I'd press the earth-destroying button if I had it?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Thanks for being one of the only ones here to recognize the truth.

Man is a tragic animal, b/c, as an ape that's too smart for his own good, he yearns for JPELCU in a universe that can't give him JPELCU. Not to mention that millions suffer horribly, too.

Is it any wonder why I'd press the earth-destroying button if I had it?

The thing is, we have the ability to rise above that. The fact that so many don't, is the tragedy.

 

[drews]

The thing is, we have the ability to rise above that. The fact that so many don't, is the tragedy.

'Rise above it' defined as 'distract yourself with a red bouncy ball until you die.'

Whee! Bouncy bouncy bouncy!

I just wish more atheists were as honest as Zapffe: "For the honest questioner, however, there will never be an answer." That's it- no answer. End of story. No consolatory bullshit...

 

[butchersapron]

So stop looking for it. Be honest.

 

[goldenecitrone]

'Rise above it' defined as 'distract yourself with a red bouncy ball until you die.'

Whee! Bouncy bouncy bouncy!

I just wish more atheists were as honest as Zapffe: "For the honest questioner, however, there will never be an answer." That's it- no answer. End of story. No consolatory bullshit...

That's just Socrates. The wise man knows that he knows nothing. We don't need answers, just best approximations.

 

[drews]

So since there's no JPELCU, why procreate? Why not let our tragic hopeless species die? I mean, fuck.

 

[butchersapron]

I don't think you'll have too many worries on that score frankly.

 

[drews]

I don't think you'll have too many worries on that score frankly.

Really? Guess you haven't talked to your mom lately..