Will the New Orleans floods finally bring down Bush?
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Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Tbh honest if anything were to come of this i'd hope it'd be damage to the whole neo con reputation, agenda and power...can't see how that will happen though when it seems most Americans see Bush but not much of the powers behind him...
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Kid_Eternity said:
Which made me think - where is Dick Cheney?
Ah, yes, on his way to a fundraiser at the far-right-wing Frazer Insitute in Vancouver. But that's not until Thursday.
And Rumsfeld - who as Defense ought to be doing something about relief? Nada. The only mentions of him are a Letterman show appearance next week and him being sued by State governments that want to keep military bases open.
An alternative to editor's original question is starting to form up in my mind - is the useless Bush being hung out to dry (sorry) by the real powers in the Administration?
Edited to add: but if you sort that news.google search by date, you get a big feature the Associated Press put out a few minutes ago on the lies over Iraq's weapone and Rumsfeld and Cheney's part in them.
Steve Booth
Bourgeois apologist
global warning
A great thread this - I think I agree with 99.9% of everything that has been said.
Not very much has been said in the media about the global warming angle on this. Remember the Great Hurricane of 1987 in the South of England when all the trees blew down and there was a stock market crash?
Obviously looking back, the big wind was an effect of global warming. We have had more of these winds now, and a lot of floods, and it doesn't seem such a big event as it did at the time.
What will happen when there is another big hurricane like this one in a year or eighteen months time? It will happen again.
I'm wondering what long term effect this Hurricane Katrina of the Waves will have on the price of oil, supposing that the southern US refinery industry is out of commission for a good while?
Will it have an effect on peoples' perceptions about Global Warming in the USA? Will it make them change their behaviour? Honour the Kyoto Treaty? Some chance....
As to President Bush, I think it will have a bad effect on his standing with the American public, but he will ride it out. The lack of emergency services and reservists because they're all out in Iraq perception will also affect the dwindling support for the war. But the Imperium are all locked into it anyway because It's All About Oil Really....
A great thread this - I think I agree with 99.9% of everything that has been said.
Not very much has been said in the media about the global warming angle on this. Remember the Great Hurricane of 1987 in the South of England when all the trees blew down and there was a stock market crash?
Obviously looking back, the big wind was an effect of global warming. We have had more of these winds now, and a lot of floods, and it doesn't seem such a big event as it did at the time.
What will happen when there is another big hurricane like this one in a year or eighteen months time? It will happen again.
I'm wondering what long term effect this Hurricane Katrina of the Waves will have on the price of oil, supposing that the southern US refinery industry is out of commission for a good while?
Will it have an effect on peoples' perceptions about Global Warming in the USA? Will it make them change their behaviour? Honour the Kyoto Treaty? Some chance....
As to President Bush, I think it will have a bad effect on his standing with the American public, but he will ride it out. The lack of emergency services and reservists because they're all out in Iraq perception will also affect the dwindling support for the war. But the Imperium are all locked into it anyway because It's All About Oil Really....
Steve Booth said:
I think that's probably a good thing. The connection needs to be expressed very, very carefully.
As Bernie Gunther said somewhere on the big thread, it seems there's a hurrican cycle and it's approaching its peak. And understanding of how hurricanes work is fairly sketchy - modelling the energy transfer from the sea surface to the wind is a bastard, and instrumentation tends to disappear
So: it seems likely that warming will statistically increase the number of hurricanes over the variation that we'd have expected without it. And it seems likely that it will shift the distribution of hurrican sizes toward the big ones. But it's impossible to put a figure on either shift. Or even an order of magnitude: I don't know that anyone has more than a loose idea whether the energy of the hurricane rises with the thermal energy in the sea, with the square of it, chaotically, or what.
But, yes, in general: global warming means there will be a lot more weather, somewhere; and in a very general sense I think a lot of people are feeling that this is a lot of weather and is is a chicken coming home to roost on the territory of the US.
But any specific claim would be a hostage to climate change sceptics. Monday, I'll ask some scientists what can be said...
editor
hiraethified
There would be a certain irony if it turned out that the Hurricane (and the ensuing catastrophic loss of life, property, business and capital) happened as a result of global warming - something that Bush has refused to take seriously, dismissing the Kyoto Protocol as "bad for business".Steve Booth said:
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Steve Booth said:
You know that's a very good point, i'd completly missed that connection to this, cheers for that!
*ponders some more*editor said:
Good post.
One thing's for sure, the tardy and largely uncaring response of the Washington political elite (Republican and Democrat) to the tragedy and devastation, has sent a loud and clear message to all the less privileged layers in American society today: 'we, the minority elite, do not give a fuck about you'.
If a powerful movement for social justice should now arise then it will do so out of the ruins of New Orleans and the suffering of its very poorest people.
The elite send in 'help'
Guns and Prayer..help for flood victims...at last
Washington Post. Gov. Kathleen Blanco called the looters "hoodlums" and issued a warning to lawbreakers: Hundreds of National Guard troops hardened on the battlefield in Iraq have landed in New Orleans.
"They have M-16s and they're locked and loaded," she said. "These troops know how to shoot and kill, and they are more than willing to do so, and I expect they will."
lostexpectation
New Member
gotta get a pic of him playing golf today
...http://www.bongonews.com/StoryImages/Bush_Golf_2004-06-02.jpg
...http://www.bongonews.com/StoryImages/Bush_Golf_2004-06-02.jpg
Mickey2star
Active Member
Interesting to note that the tone of US media I have looked at is markedly less critical of Bush than our own and European media.
Epitomised by pictures of Bush kissing babies vs European media images of old people in wheelchairs on the street in N.O. , no drinking water etc.
They say most of the Louisaina National guard are in Iraq. Thses are the ones who would have gone in to help..
Epitomised by pictures of Bush kissing babies vs European media images of old people in wheelchairs on the street in N.O. , no drinking water etc.
They say most of the Louisaina National guard are in Iraq. Thses are the ones who would have gone in to help..
Eisenhower was right... ask the Katrina refugees.
"Every gun that is fired, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.
The world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its labourers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."
General Dwight D. Eisenhower, 34th President of the United States
"Every gun that is fired, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.
The world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its labourers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."
General Dwight D. Eisenhower, 34th President of the United States
pbman said:
france IS in europe!!!!!
i hope you werent implying that europe is a country instead of a continent
MightyAphrodite said:france IS in europe!!!!!
i hope you werent implying that europe is a country instead of a continent
Gee thanks.
My point was that we will be pissed off, if "you "guys try to blame bush.
Very very pissed off.
We like to pull toghether at times like this.
I suspect we would be snapping pissed off ritht now, but nothing you say makes the us press witch is 24/7 on the on going tragety. We don't have time to pay any attention to what you guys are saying.
revol68
what, fucking what?
pbman said:Gee thanks.
My point was that we will be pissed off, if "you "guys try to blame bush.
Very very pissed off.
We like to pull toghether at times like this.
I suspect we would be snapping pissed off ritht now, but nothing you say makes the us press witch is 24/7 on the on going tragety. We don't have time to pay any attention to what you guys are saying.
have you been looting crack!
Bush is fucke dover this.
The relief effort is a fucking disgrace, people all around the world cannot believe just how fucked up it is! The richest nation on earth has just flashed the world it's dirty underwear.
This is the worst handled disaster since Chernobyl!
The estimated death toll is 10,000. This dwarfs 9/11. I don't know what the reaction to it has been like in America, but over here its been complete an utter shock and disbelief that it took 5 days for food and water to reach people who were hungry and thirsty. Bush has has always been a joke over here, this just comfirmed it.
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
What's truly horrible about it is the way that people too poor or sick to move were just told to go and left to their own devices. Now the right seem to be looking for a way to blame them. It's an absolutely revolting thing to see.
revol68 said:
Yes and its due to the democrats in lousiana.
Our us states are complety sovereign in many areas, if and when heads roll it will be the liberal female governor of the state.
We have whats known as a constition in the us, and it protects the rights of the states, to be free of the us military,the military can't operate on us soil.
Don't be confused by the men in green you see on tv, those are guard troops under the control of the state govenors. Only they can order them out.
It apears that europeans are very ignorant of how things work in the us, and of the scope of the logistical problems.
Were not just talking about new orleans hundred or thousands of towns have been whipped off the map, in three states.
peppery said:
TRy about 50 thousand or more i bet when the final numbers are in.
And try looking at a map of the area affected, its a bit bigger than New orleans.
Or do you expect rescue workers to drive by people dieing to help people diying 50 miles down the road, with all the bridges out in the middle?
Thats not to say their haven't been f-ups but those are not do to the federal gov't.
If your press isn't telling you these things, they don't have the ability to learn whats going on, and to proccess and present information.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
What?
pbman said:
Yes you're absolutely right. There other places that were devastated are not being given as much media attention. But they also seem to have been forgotton by the emergency services. One of the worst things I saw on the news yesterday was a carfull of senior citizens in Biloxi who were starving and thirsty who had no food or water.
What I can't understand is what seems to be the lack of urgency.
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
I don't actually care who failed. I just care that they did fail.
editor
hiraethified
Have you any idea how shocked Britain - and most probably all of Europe (along with the rest of the world) - is with the US's total incompetence and shocking inability to deal with this tragedy?pbman said:
It's been five days - FIVE FUCKING DAYS - before help has even begun to arrive in New Orleans. Your citizens are dying in their hundreds. There are dead bodies left to rot in the streets.
There is looting, hunger, anarchy, gang rape and lawlessness on the streets of America. There is anger, frustration and desperation.
Citizens are forced to loot food and drink because the state is unable to provide them with their basic services.
Americans should be ashamed and fucking angry about how its government is treating its citizens right now.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
How many people do you think you could get on all those things? Are you joking? That wouldn't even take one block.pbman said:That was the city of new orleans.
Have you seen the photo of the hundreds of parked busses?
The city of new orleans had the resorces to move the people, they choose not to.
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