Will the CWU win?

[William of Walworth]

Just read the Clive James article.

He says some sensible stuff in places, but I disagree with him here :

My own politics, in this matter, remain where they always were, on the old-style left. I think it's up to management, and always has been. If the managers can't manage to sort it out, preferably in advance, then they ought not to be managing. But quite often they haven't been. They've just been sitting there, failing to notice that the workers have begun to arrive at work facing backwards, ready to walk out.

He's right to imply that strikes are the fault of incompetent management, but he's all wrong to suggest that the RM management are 'just sitting there', passively doing nothing in the face of strike happy posties.

The latest strikes have been actively and deliberately provoked by management ....

 

[William of Walworth]

So that's why what was merely difficult but do-able 10 years ago for Deutsche Post is now totally impossible for Royal Mail. Being preserved in aspic as government owned enterprise with the bruvvas fighting automation every step of the way has completely doomed the organisation.

The bit I've bolded is complete bollocks.

Agreed.

In DD's world it's all the workers' fault, and the management bear no responsibility it seems ....

Thought-experiment for Downward Dog and other Tories : have you ever even considered the possibility that the CWU's militancy is fuelled by militancy on the Management's side?

 

[trevhagl]

silence from the Tory...

 

[bigbry]

The majority of people in the UK work for firms that dont make millions
It those samller, old school companies that will be hurt most - they cant afford the overhead of electronic payment systems and rely on cheques

It will make fuck all difference to BP, Sainsbuggers, etc - all the big boys in other words

The Banks are stopping issuing cheques next year, aren't they ?

 

[DownwardDog]

Thought-experiment for Downward Dog and other Tories : have you ever even considered the possibility that the CWU's militancy is fuelled by militancy on the Management's side?

Well sure, but that doesn't mean the CWU are going to "win" - whatever that means. Time travel back to 1947 apparently.

Both sides strike me as being as thick as shit in this dispute. The CWU are choosing to prosecute the dispute by getting their members to lose money doing a strike that the government couldn't give a fuck about. Meanwhile they've given the Labour Party 5 million quid since 2001. Mandelson must be laughing his arse off at the stupid cunts.

The management seem to be inept liars with no real plan on how to transform the business to something approaching relevance. What sketchy plan they do have is implemented in a cack handed and confrontational manner with the inevitable result of the current farrago.

 

[trevhagl]

Well sure, but that doesn't mean the CWU are going to "win" - whatever that means. Time travel back to 1947 apparently.

Both sides strike me as being as thick as shit in this dispute. The CWU are choosing to prosecute the dispute by getting their members to lose money doing a strike that the government couldn't give a fuck about. Meanwhile they've given the Labour Party 5 million quid since 2001. Mandelson must be laughing his arse off at the stupid cunts.

The management seem to be inept liars with no real plan on how to transform the business to something approaching relevance. What sketchy plan they do have is implemented in a cack handed and confrontational manner with the inevitable result of the current farrago.

there is no more scope to transform the business - they are already making posties carry 3 times the amount of bags they did 10 years ago.

 

[robbo180265]

Well sure, but that doesn't mean the CWU are going to "win" - whatever that means. Time travel back to 1947 apparently.

Are you ever going to read whats been written on this board by the various people caught up in this dispute including myself??? Or even maybe do a little research???

Or just carry on spouting the management approved bollocks?

http://bit.ly/11Q1aq

Im an ex postman. I did 2 years

When I was there it was largely ok, there were always staffing issues in the South East, but when the CWU signed the Way Forward document in 2000 it essentially meant the beginning of the end.

Whats happened is that you cannot become a full time postman anymore, the job has been casualised and thats one of the reasons your postal service has been crap recently. In my day you had a set walk and you knew that walk and you knew the people and the community I used to change an old ladies lightbulbs for her. The money was pretty good at the time. There was always enough overtime if you needed to get anything. Now you've got an agency worker running round confused delivering mail wherever it fits. It might be good for the balance sheet, but its not good for you or I.

Some of the freemarketers on here will think that competition is healthy, but Ive just had the most ridiculous customer service experience with DHL. So i question the ability of all these operators.

Also I cannot see the point in paying people less. We have a service economy, not an export economy, we need money in the general populaces pockets to power our economy. Having every last person on minimum wage working shit hours with no pension is not going to do anyone any good in the long run.

Adeam Crozier is a cock, he's had scandal after scandal and yet he survives because the government would never question a decision a CEO makes, even though they and ultimately we will be footing the bill.

Doesnt everyone get money by BACS transfer now?

I'm gonna weigh in here, I normally lurk but as I am a postman I thought you might like to hear my point of view.

Firstly (for the right wingers amongst us) None of us want to strike, none of us want to lose money. The union has been trying to negotiate some form of understanding all year to no avail. In fact until the ballot result was published Royal Fail were just ignoring the union completely.

Dont listen to the media either, this isn't about "modernisation" this is about our pensions - both the Tories and Labour alowed Royal Fail to take a 17 year break from paying anything into our pension fund so that they could use the money on brilliant ideas like changing our name to Consignia and such. Suddenly they've realised that there is something like a 10 billion gap in the fund. We carried on paying into it and quite frankly we'd like our money when we retire.

This is not about our hours - its about what we are expected to do in those hours. I live quite a way away from our sorting office and used to work lates, which meant that if my car needs work or broke down I could still catch the train. With little or no warning my shift was changed to an early shift. The work I used to do is now being done by agency staff. I now find myself running my car into the ground because I can neither afford to get any work done on it (all my late allowances have gone) or afford the time to get the work done(I cant get to work without it) When I explained these problems to a manager it was greeted with a shrug of the shoulders.

I now have to do a full delivery in the morning - 3 and a half hours lugging 5, 6, 7 bags in all weather. I get a 40min break and then I have to do a 2 hour collection. If I get wet in the morning I have to stay soaked until I get home at around 7pm. I raised this with my manager and was met with (you guessed it) a shrug of the shoulders.

Since the changes have been brought in 4 posties and 1 manager (out of 40 odd on our shift) have gone sick with stress and I am really close to joining them

I cant transfer to an office closer to home because Royal Fail will only alow you to transfer if you agree to go part time.

Its about the service and how they've totally destroyed it. Postboxes in my area only get one collection every 24 hours now - so you miss it and your letter stays there till the next day. Sub post offices that have been closed.

The other day I had an argument with my manger about a customer who posted tonnes of stuff with us, RM had taken one of his collections away and he wanted it back. My manager actually said "I will not let a customer dictate his collection time to me" Priceless!

We've been pushed and pushed by RM we actually think that they want the strike, want RM to go tits because then it can be sold off nice and cheap to Murdock

And there's plenty more explanations here - IF YOU COULD BE ARSED TO LOOK FOR THEM

Edited to show what an ill informed fuckwit he really is:


"Unite followed the usual union practice of making a substantial donation to the national Labour party (£1.4m) and a series of smaller donations to local Labour constituencies around the country. The GMB donated £294,358 nationally, plus other donations locally; and the CWU gave £169,455 nationally".

This taken from an article in last years Guardian http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/aug/28/labour.partyfunding

Which took all of 30 seconds to find - I did the research - you do the maths

 

[rover07]

I dont think more talks will do any good.

 

[Balbi]

I've got a socialist facebook acquaintance whose status this morning was 'Bitterness in the post as the CWU betray the workers'.

Wake the fuck up and smell the public opinion mate, by not going on strike around the xmas period the posties get valuable public support in the new year when they go out again. In your socialist paradise, workers stay out on striker forever and don't need the general public backing them in order to get pressure on the management - but we're not there.

Good move on the CWU, the stalemate was going stale. Now everyone gets their letters for seven weeks, and the posties get a round of applause from everyone else. The Royal Mail and Mandleson still look like shits, and we get another go in the New Year.

Up the posties

 

[trevhagl]

I've got a socialist facebook acquaintance whose status this morning was 'Bitterness in the post as the CWU betray the workers'.

Wake the fuck up and smell the public opinion mate, by not going on strike around the xmas period the posties get valuable public support in the new year when they go out again. In your socialist paradise, workers stay out on striker forever and don't need the general public backing them in order to get pressure on the management - but we're not there.

Good move on the CWU, the stalemate was going stale. Now everyone gets their letters for seven weeks, and the posties get a round of applause from everyone else. The Royal Mail and Mandleson still look like shits, and we get another go in the New Year.

Up the posties

but without an ACAS binding agreement the cunts will try it on again in Jan surely, when hardly anyone gives a fuck about the service?

 

[Balbi]

but without an ACAS binding agreement the cunts will try it on again in Jan surely, when hardly anyone gives a fuck about the service?

Silly question Trev, but the cunts here are management and mandy, oui?

 

[butchersapron]

I've got a socialist facebook acquaintance whose status this morning was 'Bitterness in the post as the CWU betray the workers'.

Wake the fuck up and smell the public opinion mate, by not going on strike around the xmas period the posties get valuable public support in the new year when they go out again. In your socialist paradise, workers stay out on striker forever and don't need the general public backing them in order to get pressure on the management - but we're not there.

Good move on the CWU, the stalemate was going stale. Now everyone gets their letters for seven weeks, and the posties get a round of applause from everyone else. The Royal Mail and Mandleson still look like shits, and we get another go in the New Year.

Up the posties

hook line and sinker.

 

[Balbi]

hook line and sinker.

Shit sorry butchers, didn't mean to prove whatever point you're trying to prove today in a single post

 

[trevhagl]

Silly question Trev, but the cunts here are management and mandy, oui?

of course. Sly as a box of foxes, unless something is written into the agreement thats binding, RM will be back in January to take more liberties

 

[William of Walworth]

I want more information on this very temporary looking 'settlement', just about to look around ... meanwhile any helpful links welcomed.

What happened to that CWU legal action against the RM taking on agency workers?

 

[claphamboy]

Well, at least a 'cease-fire' until the New Year will ensure the posties don't lose any more money from their pay packets during this expensive period of the year and hopefully they and their families can have a decent Christmas.

I agree it's also good PR with the public, I've got to say I've been amazed by the level of public support and I think it's beneficial to try to keep that on side or even grow that support.

but without an ACAS binding agreement the cunts will try it on again in Jan surely, when hardly anyone gives a fuck about the service?

What on earth are you on about now?

The vast majority of mail handled is still from the business sector, that continues all year round.

 

[trevhagl]

Well, at least a 'cease-fire' until the New Year will ensure the posties don't lose any more money from their pay packets during this expensive period of the year and hopefully they and their families can have a decent Christmas.

I agree it's also good PR with the public, I've got to say I've been amazed by the level of public support and I think it's beneficial to try to keep that on side or even grow that support.



What on earth are you on about now?

The vast majority of mail handled is still from the business sector, that continues all year round.

ah right so it made no difference striking at Xmas time, well bugger me, the posties shoulda thought of that then!

 

[claphamboy]

ah right so it made no difference striking at Xmas time, well bugger me, the posties shoulda thought of that then!

Not a lot, except leaving them short for Christmas, which I guess is why there's a 'cease-fire' until January.

 

[trevhagl]

Not a lot, except leaving them short for Christmas, which I guess is why there's a 'cease-fire' until January.

so the 15,000 casual staff they take on each year at Xmas is just a sort of lottery then, a wild guess?

 

[claphamboy]

so the 15,000 casual staff they take on each year at Xmas is just a sort of lottery then, a wild guess?

You're not making any sense, care to explain your point, if you have one?

 

[trevhagl]

You're not making any sense, care to explain your point, if you have one?

you're trying to make out that it doesn't make any difference for the posties to strike at Xmas because mail levels are roughly the same throughout the year. So i sarcastically pointed out RM employ 15,000 casual staff EVERY XMAS. Why would that be then?

 

[claphamboy]

you're trying to make out that it doesn't make any difference for the posties to strike at Xmas because mail levels are roughly the same throughout the year. So i sarcastically pointed out RM employ 15,000 casual staff EVERY XMAS. Why would that be then?

I have said no such thing, having trouble reading again?

Let's try again:

YOU: Jan - when hardly anyone gives a fuck about the service?

ME: The vast majority of mail handled is still from the business sector, that continues all year round.

Do you deny that the vast majority of mail is business post? Do you deny that business post continues all year round? Do you deny that business customers will give a fuck about the service in January? Do you deny that losing business customers will hurt the RM the most?