Will the CWU win?

[trevhagl]

Like many I support the postal workers completely, but I'm also fairly pessimistic, like articula8 above -- even a short term 'win' for the CWU won't necessarily be sustainable over the longer term, given the determination of the free marketeers to privatise.

this is why they don't want to go to ACAS, they will probably offer a few minor concessions then as soon as Xmas is out of the way BANG! Uber capitalism gone mad....

someone said on another thread they couldn't do this if it was an ACAS (binding) agreement

 

[trevhagl]

Why is Crozier paid so much?

you won't get an answer to that from the New Labour shysters

 

[gabi]

you won't get an answer to that from the New Labour shysters

Market rate for a top executive

Presumably he was on a similar amount when he was running the FA

 

[trevhagl]

Market rate for a top executive

Presumably he was on a similar amount when he was running the FA

he is actually the highest paid civil servant in the country and has brought Royal Mail to it's knees. How much worse would it be if they employed someone on such a 'low' amount as the prime ministers wage i wonder?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Market rate for a top executive

Presumably he was on a similar amount when he was running the FA

As is fairly usual for you, you presume wrong.
He was on a tenth of his Royal Mail salary at the F.A.: £300,000.

 

[weltweit]

I didn't say that they stand out. I said that you clearly have a position and i find it annoying that you pretend you don't.

I have thought about it, and I am still pretty sure that "I don't have a dog in this fight!" I really am ambivalent, I am not a big user of the post office, I think the workers probably have a valid grievance but that management probably also have the imperative to modernise. I think the best result is if they get their heads together and find a resolution.

Market rate for a top executive

Presumably he was on a similar amount when he was running the FA

But he is on some £3million, I don't know many private sector chief execs or chairmen who are on such salaries.

As is fairly usual for you, you presume wrong.
He was on a tenth of his Royal Mail salary at the F.A.: £300,000.

It seems to me he is vastly overpaid and this is probably a source of great annoyance to run of the mill postmen and women.

 

[DownwardDog]

It seems to me he is vastly overpaid and this is probably a source of great annoyance to run of the mill postmen and women.

The CEO of Deutsche Post (which is a much bigger global company as it includes DHL Express and Logistics) makes 1.4m EUR p.a.

Crozier's ridiculous salary probably says more about the utter incompetence of the people that hired him rather than anything about AC's leet skillz at running companies.

As ever, you don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate...

 

[trevhagl]

The CEO of Deutsche Post (which is a much bigger global company as it includes DHL Express and Logistics) makes 1.4m EUR p.a.

Crozier's ridiculous salary probably says more about the utter incompetence of the people that hired him rather than anything about AC's leet skillz at running companies.

As ever, you don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate...

fuck me, Tory in agreement with Hagl shocker

 

[DownwardDog]

fuck me, Tory in agreement with Hagl shocker

Well the reason the DP guy doesn't get paid a comedy salary is that the German Post Office was privatised in the 90s so there is more transparency and rigour in executive renumeration. Crozier probably would never have been appointed never mind paid 3m pa if the Royal Mail had a Supervisory Board and stockholders. When the appointment is in the gift of politicians there's always the possibility of an overpaid hack getting the gig.

 

[trevhagl]

Well the reason the DP guy doesn't get paid a comedy salary is that the German Post Office was privatised in the 90s so there is more transparency and rigour in executive renumeration. Crozier probably would never have been appointed never mind paid 3m pa if the Royal Mail had a Supervisory Board and stockholders. When the appointment is in the gift of politicians there's always the possibility of an overpaid hack getting the gig.

but how stupid have you got to be (whoever in Govt made the decision) to give someone £3-£4 million for running the post office?

 

[DownwardDog]

but how stupid have you got to be (whoever in Govt made the decision) to give someone £3-£4 million for running the post office?

I know. It's probably a good reason not to have the government involved in running a mail company.

 

[weltweit]

I didn't realise DHL was part of Deutsche Post.

But it supports my theory that Parcelforce should be competing globally with FedEx, TNT, UPS et al. If Deutshe Post / DHL can then Royal Mail Parcelforce should.

 

[trevhagl]

I know. It's probably a good reason not to have the government involved in running a mail company.

you'll put ideas into Mandelsons head, i can just see the anouncement now...

"well we're privatising the Royal Mail! Why? Because we're crap!"

 

[trevhagl]

I didn't realise DHL was part of Deutsche Post.

But it supports my theory that Parcelforce should be competing globally with FedEx, TNT, UPS et al. If Deutshe Post / DHL can then Royal Mail Parcelforce should.

DHL deliver the stuff on time because they have enough staff. The govt have cut RM staff to make it look sexy (the profit figures) for private companies for when they privatise it.

 

[weltweit]

DHL deliver the stuff on time because they have enough staff. The govt have cut RM staff to make it look sexy (the profit figures) for private companies for when they privatise it.

Do you have any evidence for the suggestion that DHL have higher levels of staff than Parcelforce or is this just one of your assertions?

 

[trevhagl]

Do you have any evidence for the suggestion that DHL have higher levels of staff than Parcelforce or is this just one of your assertions?

not really rocket science. If you cut the staff like Royal Mail has done (60,000 in 10 years) you will have problems. I don't know anything about DHL but if they didn't have enough staff to deliver parcels on time, it would take 3-4 days, like Parcelfarce.

 

[London_Calling]

It's not a war it's a battle. The postie's can win this battle - maybe, they cannot win the war.

 

[DownwardDog]

I didn't realise DHL was part of Deutsche Post.

But it supports my theory that Parcelforce should be competing globally with FedEx, TNT, UPS et al. If Deutshe Post / DHL can then Royal Mail Parcelforce should.

DP were privatised in 1995 and gradually acquired DHL from 1998 - 2001. A mode of strategic and progressive thinking that is utterly alien to Royal Mail and the reactionary forces in the Labour party and unions.

The cost of entry is now too high for RM, the best they can hope for now is to be subsumed into the British division of TNT or UPS.

 

[trevhagl]

DP were privatised in 1995 and gradually acquired DHL from 1998 - 2001. A mode of strategic and progressive thinking that is utterly alien to Royal Mail and the reactionary forces in the Labour party and unions.

The cost of entry is now too high for RM, the best they can hope for now is to be subsumed into the British division of TNT or UPS.

entry to what? UPS are a bureaucratic nightmare, even their own workers shake their heads in disbelief at their rules and regulations

 

[weltweit]

not really rocket science. If you cut the staff like Royal Mail has done (60,000 in 10 years) you will have problems. I don't know anything about DHL but if they didn't have enough staff to deliver parcels on time, it would take 3-4 days, like Parcelfarce.

So you in fact have no idea the comparative manning levels of parcelforce compared to DHL and are as usual blowing up a thought into a possible fact!

DP were privatised in 1995 and gradually acquired DHL from 1998 - 2001. A mode of strategic and progressive thinking that is utterly alien to Royal Mail and the reactionary forces in the Labour party and unions.

The cost of entry is now too high for RM, the best they can hope for now is to be subsumed into the British division of TNT or UPS.

I don't understand, why is the cost of entry (into global parcel logistics) now, greater than it was 10 years ago?

 

[trevhagl]

So you in fact have no idea the comparative manning levels of parcelforce compared to DHL and are as usual blowing up a thought into a possible fact!

Well if you can think of a better reason in explaining the time difference i'm all ears

 

[DownwardDog]

I don't understand, why is the cost of entry (into global parcel logistics) now, greater than it was 10 years ago?

First, ParcelForce aren't in a position to build European, Asian and American super-hubs to build a worldwide network never mind starting a global airline - that's literally billions.

Second, if they can't build it from scratch who could they conceivably acquire? There's been a great deal of consolidation in the express parcels and freight business and there's only a few big players now. Are ParcelForce really going to buy TNT (market cap 6.7bn EUR) or UPS (market cap $53bn)?

Third, the business has changed a great deal over the last 10 years. The document business (easy and cheap to handle, not dutiable) has all but disappeared and been replaced by volumetrically inefficient, expensive to transport and difficult to handle parcel shipments with associated expensive and difficult IT solutions.

So that's why what was merely difficult but do-able 10 years ago for Deutsche Post is now totally impossible for Royal Mail. Being preserved in aspic as government owned enterprise with the bruvvas fighting automation every step of the way has completely doomed the organisation.

 

[DownwardDog]

entry to what? UPS are a bureaucratic nightmare, even their own workers shake their heads in disbelief at their rules and regulations

So? Shit companies like UPS buy even shitter companies like Royal Mail every day of the week.

 

[claphamboy]

So that's why what was merely difficult but do-able 10 years ago for Deutsche Post is now totally impossible for Royal Mail. Being preserved in aspic as government owned enterprise with the bruvvas fighting automation every step of the way has completely doomed the organisation.

The bit I've bolded is complete bollocks.

 

[butchersapron]

Yet how many times has it been trotted out now? Next we'll hear they've lost the amazon contract. Don't people bother doing the most basic of research anymore?

 

[robbo180265]

Yet how many times has it been trotted out now? Next we'll hear they've lost the amazon contract. Don't people bother doing the most basic of research anymore?

Apparently not when quoting the usual right wing (Royal Mail approved) bollocks

 

[weltweit]

First, ParcelForce aren't in a position to build European, Asian and American super-hubs to build a worldwide network never mind starting a global airline - that's literally billions.

Second, if they can't build it from scratch who could they conceivably acquire? There's been a great deal of consolidation in the express parcels and freight business and there's only a few big players now. Are ParcelForce really going to buy TNT (market cap 6.7bn EUR) or UPS (market cap $53bn)?

Third, the business has changed a great deal over the last 10 years. The document business (easy and cheap to handle, not dutiable) has all but disappeared and been replaced by volumetrically inefficient, expensive to transport and difficult to handle parcel shipments with associated expensive and difficult IT solutions.

So that's why what was merely difficult but do-able 10 years ago for Deutsche Post is now totally impossible for Royal Mail. Being preserved in aspic as government owned enterprise with the bruvvas fighting automation every step of the way has completely doomed the organisation.

Ok, I understand what you are saying.
Effectively the window of opportunity is now closed.

I understand that there has been consolidation, the other players gobbled up a lot of smaller players as they were growing.

 

[starfish2000]

No winner if it drags on and on. The CWU will end up with 000s of redundancies on it's hands, mgmt won't have much of a business left to run when their customers all dissappear.

HEY! Just like the 1970s and the car industry.

Err not really

Wer have this distorted myth about that, our car industry died for 2 reasons

1: We were designing shit looking cars like the Morris Ital so people bought VW's and stuff.

2: We were not interested enough in our domestic market. At one point it was cheaper to by a Triumph TR7 in Los Angeles than it was in Coventry. Being as the stuff was made here it could have been sold to the British Consumer for far less.

Marshall amplifiers are a good example of this 90% of their output is for export, but they look after the British guitarist because they sell their amps far cheaper here than elsewhere. Not all of that is exchange rates etc.

But British Leyland never did that, Im sure strikes contributed, but being as Toyota and Honda both have factories here, our workers didn't frighten them off!!!!

 

[teuchter]

Clive James on the RM strikes

 

[trevhagl]

Clive James on the RM strikes

a very valid point in there about concord between management and workers. In this country it's always "Do what you're told or fuck off" and it will get worse if the real Tories get in