Why Socialists should support Respect

[butchersapron]

So educate me and give me some examples of people who go under the title 'Mullah' who live and work in Britain.

First off, admit that you attempted to make a shockingly transparent bluff that only highligted your own ignorance by claiming that Mullahs are called Imams in the UK. Or do you stand by that?

 

[rebel warrior]

why is making jokes about mullahs reactionary?! Is the same true for vicars?

As an aside you didn't even seem to know the very basics of Islam....

In the current climate in Britain, I do think it is reactionary, especially for someone who calls himself a revolutionary, to make jokes about 'Mullahs'. Unless you count the Sun newspaper as a barometer of what is a good sense of humour, that is...

Making jokes about vicars is not reactionary in a country like Britain, where Christianity still has strong links to the state. Mind you, most of the jokes around vicars are a little shite as well...unless of course the Vicar of Dibley is regarded as the high point of humour by Workers Power members, which wouldn't come as a total surprise...

 

[rebel warrior]

First off, admit that you attempted to make a shockingly transparent bluff that only highligted your own ignorance by claiming that Mullahs are called Imams in the UK. Or do you stand by that?

You thought that Mullahs did exist in Britain first! I had to clarify for you, and was then slightly out in claiming Mullahs and Imams were completely identical...

 

[flimsier]

It actually is a good article, ruined by the fact that he put his name to it. Donovan has no credibility amongst the left, and as the left is the target of the article, it's pretty useless.

I think he even made an appearance on these very boards a few months ago, and shied away from questions very quickly indeed.

 

[oisleep]

so let me get this straight, jokes about one religion are ok, jokes about another are not



jokes about all religions should be ok, especially their leaders!

 

[rebel warrior]

jokes about all religions should be ok, especially their leaders!

Okay, tosser - be a man and prove your 'revolutionary credentials' by going and making fun out of Martin Luther King, Malcolm X and Gandhi...

Fuck I wish I had your sense of humour...

 

[butchersapron]

You thought that Mullahs did exist in Britain first! I had to clarify for you, and was then slightly out in claiming Mullahs and Imams were completely identical...

You're wrong on both counts though you prat - that's thew whole point! Mosques have Mullahs in this and other countries. An Imam is not another name for a Mullah in this country.

 

[Chuck Wilson]

In today's Britain, I would suggest that the immediate task is to break Labour's hegemony on the left and working class vote. This involves a strike both at the ideological hold of neoliberalism and the institutional hold of a party that can no longer even promise capitalism with a human face. This can be done because Labour has, through its PFIs, wars and attacks on civil liberties, pissed off two key groups which are likely to be sympathetic to socialist arguments: 1) trade unionists, 2) Muslims. Add to that pensioners, former Labour Party members, students, single mothers, the disabled, immigrants, shiraz-quaffing patio-botherers and so on, and you have a potentially large coalition.

Aside from the case that forming an alliance based on a federation of single issues and amateur potential consumer profiling is one built on sand why has he decided to subject "shiraz-quaffing patio-botherers " to have RESPECT inflicted upon them?

 

[rebel warrior]

Mosques have Mullahs in this [country]

Where?

An Imam is not another name for a Mullah in this country.

A point I have already conceded...

 

[hibee]

Okay, tosser - be a man and prove your 'revolutionary credentials' by going and making fun out of Martin Luther King, Malcolm X and Gandhi...

Fuck I wish I had your sense of humour...

There was this Christian, a Muslim and a Hindu, right...

 

[butchersapron]

Where?



A point I have already conceded...

But failed to explain why you decided to try and bullshit your way out of it.

 

[oisleep]

Okay, tosser - be a man and prove your 'revolutionary credentials' by going and making fun out of Martin Luther King, Malcolm X and Gandhi...

Fuck I wish I had your sense of humour...

rebel one step at a time, i wish you had a sense of humour, then we can talk about levels

 

[rebel warrior]

There was this Christian, a Muslim and a Hindu, right...

Brilliant. You are the new Mark Thomas.

 

[rebel warrior]

But failed to explain why you decided to try and bullshit your way out of it.

Which British Muslim calls himself a Mullah?

 

[Wilf]

In the current climate in Britain, I do think it is reactionary, especially for someone who calls himself a revolutionary, to make jokes about 'Mullahs'.

Err, why? - no, really - explain to me why we/I/anyone shouldn't make jokes like 'Mullah-lite'?? I'm astonished that you don't regard Mullahs as part of an antiquated medieval authority system? In fact I'm appalled that your analysis of the 'current climate' suggests you should stop people opposing things that are inferently repressive.

Unless you count the Sun newspaper as a barometer of what is a good sense of humour, that is...

This is pretty much your standard strategy - as soon as faced with a tricky argument you accuse your accusers of being in league with/the same as Blair/New Labour/the BNP/Rupert Murdoch. Why not just have some principles and apply them?

 

[hibee]

Brilliant. You are the new Mark Thomas.

Please no, not that.

Was it on here I heard this joke about a religious leader: what's brown and half eaten? The pope's easter egg

 

[rebel warrior]

Apparently I have 'no sense of humour' because I refuse to laugh along when the Sun attacks 'Mad Mullahs'? Silly me, I thought the Sun was an anti-working class, trade union smashing piece of reactionary shit - but now I realise that true revolutionaries see it as brilliant satire on 'antiquated medieval religion'.

Tory-Anarchism lives!

 

[rebel warrior]

Please no, not that.

Was it on here I heard this joke about a religious leader: what's brown and half eaten? The pope's easter egg

Thats okay because it is against the Pope - ie Catholic Religion ie linked with Western power. The new Pope is a fucking ex-Nazi - critiquing him is cool with me. However, equating someone like that with Martin Luther King just cannot be fucking done by those on the Left - except of course those without either a brain or who have absolutely no idea about class struggle....

 

[Wilf]

Okay, tosser - be a man and prove your 'revolutionary credentials' by going and making fun out of Martin Luther King, Malcolm X and Gandhi...

Fuck I wish I had your sense of humour...

MLK - portly reformist, overly obsessed with bus seating
Malcolm X - Mullah-lite

 

[oisleep]

Thats okay because it is against the Pope - ie Catholic Religion ie linked with Western power. The new Pope is a fucking ex-Nazi - critiquing him is cool with me. However, equating someone like that with Martin Luther King just cannot be fucking done by those on the Left - except of course those without either a brain or who have absolutely no idea about class struggle....

you crack me up so you do

 

[cockneyrebel]

Rebel, it depends on the context don't you think? The Sun rips the piss out of trade union leaders, does that mean the left shouldn't do it?

I agree that there is a lot of Islamophobia in society and a lot of the "jokes" about Islam and mullahs are reactionary and based on racism, but does that mean that no-one should EVER take the piss out of mullahs? For example a young muslim woman in Revo was taking the piss out of her community leaders (including mullahs) at the weekend for their reactionary views. Was that out of order?

I agree that the left shouldn't slip into sun humour, but surely that doesn't mean that all criticism or piss taking of Islamic leaders is off limits?

 

[rebel warrior]

MLK - portly reformist, overly obsessed with bus seating
Malcolm X - Mullah-lite

Laughing along at that are we butchers? Cockneyrebel? Thought not somehow...

I think it exactly shows up why 'anarchism' in Britain today is considered a fucking joke and is going nowhere fast...

 

[cockneyrebel]

And rebel why are you making sweeping generalisations and equating "mullahs" - a position of religious authority, with martin luther king, malcolm X or ghandi?

But I've taken the piss out of ghandi politics many a time - for being pacifist and hippyish. Is that wrong?

 

[hibee]

Thats okay because it is against the Pope - ie Catholic Religion ie linked with Western power. The new Pope is a fucking ex-Nazi - critiquing him is cool with me. However, equating someone like that with Martin Luther King just cannot be fucking done by those on the Left - except of course those without either a brain or who have absolutely no idea about class struggle....

Are you serious? It was against the old pope, too. It's not a "critique", either. it's a fucking joke, quite a sick one which is why it's good. Have you ever heard one in the SWP?

 

[Chuck Wilson]

Apparently I have 'no sense of humour' because I refuse to laugh along when the Sun attacks 'Mad Mullahs'? Silly me, I thought the Sun was an anti-working class, trade union smashing piece of reactionary shit - but now I realise that true revolutionaries see it as brilliant satire on 'antiquated medieval religion'.

Tory-Anarchism lives!

Harry Rednaps football tips on Saturdays are ok.

 

[butchersapron]

Laughing along at that are we butchers? Cockneyrebel? Thought not somehow...

I think it exactly shows up why 'anarchism' in Britain today is considered a fucking joke and is going nowhere fast...

You what? I'm laughing at them yes. Do you remember the last time you did this little rant you ended up being forced to apologise to two us for calling us racist and admitting that the case you're agian offering is wrong into the bargain.

I think this elction is getting to you somewhat. Shouldn't you be our shouting at people anyway?

 

[cockneyrebel]

Rebel can you acknowledge the context of what is said? Don't you think it would be a good thing for example if young muslims take the piss out of their religous leaders?

 

[rebel warrior]

Rebel, it depends on the context don't you think? The Sun rips the piss out of trade union leaders, does that mean the left shouldn't do it?

When the Sun rips the piss out of trade union leaders, the Left should usually defend the elected representatives of the organised working class against the bourgeois media actually...Scargill=Hitler/Miners Strike ring any bells. I forgot, Workers Power were calling for soviets during the Miners Strike, why would they care about defending Scargill?

I agree that there is a lot of Islamophobia in society and a lot of the "jokes" about Islam and mullahs are reactionary and based on racism, but does that mean that no-one should EVER take the piss out of mullahs?

If your a Muslim comedian, or someone who has broken from Islam - fire away at Mullahs to your hearts content. If you are not, don't.

For example a young muslim woman in Revo was taking the piss out of her community leaders (including mullahs) at the weekend for their reactionary views. Was that out of order?

That is okay.

I agree that the left shouldn't slip into sun humour, but surely that doesn't mean that all criticism or piss taking of Islamic leaders is off limits?

It does while our ruling class are arresting Muslims on the street for being Muslims, and while we are occupying a country with a predominantly Muslim population I am afraid.

 

[Chuck Wilson]

For example a young muslim woman in Revo was taking the piss out of her community leaders (including mullahs) at the weekend for their reactionary views. Was that out of order?

Can anyone come to these Revo comedy nights? When are they on and is there a discount for the working class?

 

[flimsier]

Thank goodness I didn't want to discuss the article.