why no stop the war demo?
- Thread starter barney_pig
- Start date
grogwilton
Well-Known Member
In light of these developments, let me explain further.
We as a country are allied with Israel. I would argue after the US we are their second greatest ally. Therefore, protesting against the governments stance on supporting the Israeli invasion of Lebanon, might have suspended and halted that invasion leading to less lives being lost. The ceasefire in the end did lead to less people losing their lives. There are now less people dying in Lebanon then there were during the Israeli invasion. That was the aim of those stop the war marches.
Given that Russia is not our ally, what exactly do you want stop the war to protest against?
The governments current stance on the situation (opposition to Russia's invasion but the basic admission that NOONE is going to go to war with Russia over Georgia)? All that that could achieve would be Britain declaring war on Russia. Great move.
Alternatively stop the war could organise a protest outside the Russian embassy. But considering the Russian government doesnt give a fuck about what the British government thinks, let alone it's people, I doubt there would be any point, particularly as the Russian governement could easily pass off anti Russian protests as UK government sponsored idiots.
So one thing you suggest stop the war should do could logically only lead to a world war, and the only other thing they could do would be utterly, utterly pointless. Is that clear now?
We as a country are allied with Israel. I would argue after the US we are their second greatest ally. Therefore, protesting against the governments stance on supporting the Israeli invasion of Lebanon, might have suspended and halted that invasion leading to less lives being lost. The ceasefire in the end did lead to less people losing their lives. There are now less people dying in Lebanon then there were during the Israeli invasion. That was the aim of those stop the war marches.
Given that Russia is not our ally, what exactly do you want stop the war to protest against?
The governments current stance on the situation (opposition to Russia's invasion but the basic admission that NOONE is going to go to war with Russia over Georgia)? All that that could achieve would be Britain declaring war on Russia. Great move.
Alternatively stop the war could organise a protest outside the Russian embassy. But considering the Russian government doesnt give a fuck about what the British government thinks, let alone it's people, I doubt there would be any point, particularly as the Russian governement could easily pass off anti Russian protests as UK government sponsored idiots.
So one thing you suggest stop the war should do could logically only lead to a world war, and the only other thing they could do would be utterly, utterly pointless. Is that clear now?
Mmm, but it gets a bit boring when it comes from people who clearly have no intention of doing anything about, well, anything.
It irritates me on the same level as people who bemoan working class people moving towards the right and then try to justify crossing picket lines (naming no names
)DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
Capital notion my dear fellow! I'm sure if we all follow this plan they'll all sit round the table and smoke the peace pipe. After all they are but honest gentleman what what
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
But everyone knows that all anti war demos have to be organised by the SWP! I mean, otherwise all the banners wouldn't have the tops ripped off.
dennisr
the acceptable face
Its obvious barney pig is a hyprcrite himself as in bloom pointed out
barney_pig
Po-cha-na-quar-hip
thats me told then
But everyone knows that all anti war demos have to be organised by the SWP! I mean, otherwise all the banners wouldn't have the tops ripped off.
Nice one!
I for one will turn out for a demo against the invasion of Georgia. This is an act of outright aggression. One thing which will be good about such a demo is there will be a total lack of Swappies there. And a bigger bonus will be no George Galloway.
biff curtains
Fred West or Fred Housego
It's not an invasion of Georgia, it is a police action to defend Russian citizens from Georgian aggression.
Utter bollocks. You are George Galloway and I claim my £5.
Not heard such a blind expression of faith in a Tyrant since Georgie boy licked the Iranian Govts arsehole. There has been tension in the area for a multitude of reasons but it is disingenious to use the 'Sudentenland' reasoning to excuse Russia.
The Georgian Govt are not 100% perfect but they do need supporting against Russian agression and both sides need to be brought together so a that a peaceful resolution to this conflict can be achieved.
grogwilton
Well-Known Member
Where? Outside the Russian embassy?
Given that Russia doesn't mind bumping off its own journalists, regime critics, and is pursuing a vicious war of overt aggression in Chechnya and has been doing for years now, what makes you think that the a picket outside their embassy is going to achieve more then the UK governments limited pressure already has?
As I pointed out above, the SWP's position on this isn't that hypocritical. The fact that you haven't (im making an assumption here) been protesting outside the Russian embassy for the invasion and continued occupation of Chechnya would indicate to me that your position is a little more hypocritical
.
winjer
holocene death beat
The US was shipping weapons to Israel, including cluster bombs, via RAF Brize Norton, you muppet.
bluestreak
HomosexualityIsStalin’sAtomBombtoDestroyAmerica
Yes, because the Russian and Georgian governments often make decisions based on a bunch of Brits marching up and down in the rain.
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
There is also the issue that when public awareness is confused about what is going on it is difficult to call a mass demonstration, the public meeting in London would hopefully provide a focus for action by arming people with an analysis and expanation of the situation
Already on other boards there has been debate about where would be an appropriate place for a demo:
Already on other boards there has been debate about where would be an appropriate place for a demo:
JHE
.
Oh, FFS! "What do we want? The British Government not to make things worse!"
How about NOT calling any demonstration until you have decided what you want?
Is there some odd Trotty sense that you just gotta have a march even if you've no fuckin idea what you're for, what you're against or what a good solution might be?
For once, I think I might almost prefer the simple peacenik types. At least they know what they want - everyone to stop being violent - even if they've no idea how to achieve it.
grogwilton
Well-Known Member
I think thats the first ever JHE post I've agreed with. No real aim to the demo, no real sense in my view that the UK is that involved in this outside of its relationship to Nato.
actally if the swp and most of the rest of the idiot m/c left had not gone hookline and sinker for the opportunistic idea that the wars in iraq and afghan are somehow an attack on islam,instead of being very very very simply one thing and one thing only, that is, wars for oil,
then in fact it would be totally legitimate to demonstate again, if mostly pointless but when did that stop a leftist demo??, against this new war as yet another imperialist war for oil
then in fact it would be totally legitimate to demonstate again, if mostly pointless but when did that stop a leftist demo??, against this new war as yet another imperialist war for oil
Where is the oil in Afghanistan?
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
running through the pipeline that the Americans met with the Taliban to discuss building pre-9.11
the anti-war movement have never seen the war as a clash between islam and the west as durruti says, but rather that in order to wage war abroad the ruling class will whip up racism against muslims as the enemy of within. for the anti-war and working class movement to give an inch to racism against muslims would have been to cut its own throat - but durruit can't grasp that elementary point!
winjer
holocene death beat
Turkmenistan, mostly.
grogwilton
Well-Known Member
so salma yaqoob deserves to get spat at in the street?
I wouldn't want to see that even though I dislike her politics and the parties whe is associated with
However.......
Id quite like to see Galloway hanging from a lampost with a sign saying 'Traitor' round his neck though.
just not true .. yes i totally believe all the swp top brass understand exactly that oil is the cause but utterly opportunistically they have hinted and talked of and used the idea of an attack on islam by the west to gain support ..
of course i understand and accpet that the state will try to whip up hatred of muslims .. ... they didn't do very well .. but by giving an inch or a milimetre to the idea that relegion is more than class or humanity you have fallen into an almighty trap .. YOU can defend muslims .. the BNP will defend whites .. well done you fell for the trap ..
mugs ( udo we have done this on here before .. you don't accept that the swp are deceitfully opportunistic .. almost everyone else does!
)do soldiers?so salma yaqoob deserves to get spat at in the street?
grogwilton
Well-Known Member
depends what theyve done.
The vast majority do not deserve to Im sure. But I doubt soldiers are often spat at in the street, its very rare.
I think incidents of muslims being verbally, physically abused because they are muslims is A LOT more common then soldiers being physically or verbally abused because they are soldiers, and Id say that anyone who believes any different was either a right wing nut or an idiot that has been taken in by tabloid headlines.
The vast majority do not deserve to Im sure. But I doubt soldiers are often spat at in the street, its very rare.
I think incidents of muslims being verbally, physically abused because they are muslims is A LOT more common then soldiers being physically or verbally abused because they are soldiers, and Id say that anyone who believes any different was either a right wing nut or an idiot that has been taken in by tabloid headlines.
