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Why is Wales so poor? (Economy, language and more)

Belushi

01 811 8055
R.I.P.
So you'd say that the English, Welsh and Scots are broadly speaking the same race?
Yes, though it depends on what you mean by 'race'. If we're talking in strictly scientific terms its a meaningless concept, but people often use it when they mean ethnicity, nationality, culture etc etc.
 

Idaho

blah blah blah
Yes, though it depends on what you mean by 'race'. If we're talking in strictly scientific terms its a meaningless concept, but people often use it when they mean ethnicity, nationality, culture etc etc.
(eyes papers suspiciously)

just checking, just checking... move along now.


:D
 

8ball

Hetero Sapiens
I just would have thought being massively subsidised might be considered odds in favour of the language's survival.

Without them it would probably be dead everywhere but in the halls of a couple of Universities.
 

editor

hiraethified
I just would have thought being massively subsidised might be considered odds in favour of the language's survival.

Without them it would probably be dead everywhere but in the halls of a couple of Universities.
I think you'll find the language survived 500-odd years of total 100% non-subsidy, despite efforts by the Englisch rulers to see it off.
 

editor

hiraethified
It's only the welsh who retain the holy glow of racial purity :p
That's an unpleasant accusation.

I'm beginning to suspect that you might have a bit of a chip on your shoulder when it comes to the Welsh, as I've yet to see you say a positive word about them.

Why is that?
 

8ball

Hetero Sapiens
I think you'll find the language survived 500-odd years of total 100% non-subsidy, despite efforts by the Englisch rulers to see it off.
Guess it should be fine without all that money now, then.

Could build a hospital or something. :)
 

Idaho

blah blah blah
That's an unpleasant accusation.

I'm beginning to suspect that you might have a bit of a chip on your shoulder when it comes to the Welsh, as I've yet to see you say a positive word about them.

Why is that?
The racial purity comment was partly a joke and partly serious. Nationalism doesn't really exist without notions of exclusivity.

I have a chip on my shoulder about certain kinds of nationalism. I like to poke and worry at the contradiction of otherwise intelligent and critical people getting crude, simplistic and uncritical under the nationalist banner.

I don't have any positive word to say about the Welsh because I think such a broad sweeping statement about a variety of different humans would be nonsense :) The only unifying trait that the Welsh have is being born in a particular part of this island - beyond that the identity is largely constructed. That in itself is all fine and dandy (providing the more ciritcal and intelligent people acknowlege it). The bit that pisses me off is when a large part of that construction seems to be about having a go at people who live in this part of the island for their constructed and artificial identity. How 'we' oppressed 'them' or 'we' took 'their' money and made 'them' poor. It's poppycock.
 

Gromit

International Man of Misery
Isn't Welsh the most highly subsidised language in the world? :confused:
I don't know but i read an article recently that stated the Welsh model of promoting their threatened language has been seen as best practice and that other regions / languages such as Catalan are looking to follow suit.

Primarily this means investing in a Language TV channel etc.
 

editor

hiraethified
Guess it should be fine without all that money now, then.

Could build a hospital or something. :)
Or perhaps people could reconnect with the language and culture of their home country. Perhaps that's not important to you, but it is to some people.

Are you aware that kids taught through the medium of Welsh are consistently performing well? Or that learning two languages when you're young holds you in good stead for learning more?

Still if you want to through around trite 'hospital' comparisons then maybe you should look closer to home: the amount of cash going to the Welsh language is microscopic compared to what people spend on home entertainment, music and cosmetics etc.
 

editor

hiraethified
The only unifying trait that the Welsh have is being born in a particular part of this island - beyond that the identity is largely constructed.
So the shared language and heritage, the place names, the history, the folklore, the language etc all count for nowt?
 

Gromit

International Man of Misery
The racial purity comment was partly a joke and partly serious. Nationalism doesn't really exist without notions of exclusivity.
It doesn't?

My mother is English. I'm welsh born and bred.

I think Wales is better off with Welsh rule not because my bloodline is any better but because i've seen how English rule has fattened English pockets over Welsh ones. Politics is all about self interest and Welsh interests are rarely in the self interest of the Londoncentric government.
 

8ball

Hetero Sapiens
Or perhaps people could reconnect with the language and culture of their home country. Perhaps that's not important to you, but it is to some people.
Then they can spend their own money on it.

Are you aware that kids taught through the medium of Welsh are consistently performing well? Or that learning two languages when you're young holds you in good stead for learning more?
I have no quarrel with this. Would seem more appropriate for our European cousins to be funding a language we could actually speak to them in, though.

the amount of cash going to the Welsh language is microscopic compared to what people spend on home entertainment, music and cosmetics etc.
That's people's own money. The portion that the Government has seen fit that people can spend as they wish. You do see the difference, don't you?
:confused:
 

editor

hiraethified
That's people's own money. The portion that the Government has seen fit that people can spend as they wish. You do see the difference, don't you?
You were the one throwing around the erroneous 'hospital' argument which has bugger all to do with the funds allocated to Welsh language.

The fact that the Welsh language is growing in Wales proves that it is indeed money well spent, even if people like you fail to comprehend why that may be important.
 

Gromit

International Man of Misery
Then they can spend their own money on it.
Should not the party who were guilty of deliberately trying to kill the language bare the responsability for undoing the damage that they did?

Its not that the language faded cause people got bored of it. Children were beaten in schools for speaking welsh and made to wear the welsh knot etc. All thanks to the English government.

I personally don't feel that any of the funding should come from Welsh tax payers but that all of it should come from English taxpayers.
 

editor

hiraethified
The Welsh language has nothing to do with the culture of most Welsh people.
It does to the 582,400 people who can speak the langiage and it does to the people who use Welsh place names every day of their lives. And, of course, it does seem just a tad important to those singing the national anthem at the Six Nations.
 

Gromit

International Man of Misery
The Welsh language has nothing to do with the culture of most Welsh people.
You only say that cause you don't live here.

I'm not a welsh speaker but even to me the welsh language forms part of my identy through wenglish, place names, cetain welsh songs and randon words and phrases such as:

Cymru am byth
Croeso y Cymru (on the borders)
Nos da
Cwtch
 
Should not the party who were guilty of deliberately trying to kill the language bare the responsability for undoing the damage that they did?

Its not that the language faded cause people got bored of it. Children were beaten in schools for speaking welsh and made to wear the welsh knot etc. All thanks to the English government.

I personally don't feel that any of the funding should come from Welsh tax payers but that all of it should come from English taxpayers.
Yes, all people living in England are evil oppressors.
 

editor

hiraethified
Ending? What ending?
Don't you know anything about the man?

He disappears after 1412 and despite enormous rewards being offered, he was never captured nor betrayed. He ignored Royal Pardons, countless stories and myths about his identity and whereabouts have circulated and it's even been argued that folk hero Jack of Kent, was Glyndwr.

The myth is that he will wake one day to set Wales free and that sure looks like a perfect Hollywood ending to me.
 

8ball

Hetero Sapiens
You were the one throwing around the erroneous 'hospital' argument which has bugger all to do with the funds allocated to Welsh language.

The fact that the Welsh language is growing in Wales proves that it is indeed money well spent, even if people like you fail to comprehend why that may be important.
They're both taxpayers' money. A lot of it not even British taxpayers.

The fact that the Welsh language is growing in Wales proves nothing more than that a lot of money has been spent. It says nothing about the merits or otherwise about spending the money in this way.
 

Gromit

International Man of Misery
fuck off! i elected no-one.

this idea of collective guilt just because of where you live is screwed. nationalists can get to fuck!
And yet I bet you are happy enough to share in the collective profits (a rich economy) resulting from your country's past. Just not its sins.
 
And yet I bet you are happy enough to share in the collective profits (a rich economy) resulting from your country's past. Just not its sins.
You're mental if you think *all* English people somehow profited from 'exploitation' of Wales. It's like when we're being told to feel collective guilt for something like slavery, or something, even tho it was ages before we were born AND the average British person didn't exactly get rich off of it.

Highly deluded. That's what nationalists are.

Would it be okay, then for Welsh people to profit from stitching up their fellow countryfolk?
 
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