Why is the law an ass?
- Thread starter NoEgo
- Start date
The expression 'the law is an ass' comes from Dickens's Oliver Twist. Mr Bumble the beadle says "If the law says that then the law is an ass".
If you want further context - go google. (look for "the law is a ass, a idiot")
H
If you want further context - go google. (look for "the law is a ass, a idiot")
H
AnnO'Neemus
Is so vanilla
In answer to the original question:
Because people fail to appreciate the difference between the law and justice. Two entirely different things.
Because people fail to appreciate the difference between the law and justice. Two entirely different things.
AnnO'Neemus said:
No the opposite is true. People consider the law to be 'an ass' because they can clearly see the difference between the law and justice.
The law operates in a system that calls itself the 'Judicial System' that is to say it claims to be about justice. That the law fails to live up to its claim to be about justice gives rise to peoples opinion that the law is foolish.
Hocus
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
deeplight said:
Unless, of course, someone's trying to steal your bicycle.
Barking_Mad
Non sibi sed omnibus
Johnny Canuck2 said:
Point missed. Come on use some imagination.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Barking_Mad said:
If you missed the point when it was this obvious, how badly will you miss it if I use some imagination?
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
deeplight said:I think he's talking about the point I made.
But yours is some sort of tautology that can't be 'gotten', unless you delude yourself.
Johnny Canuck2 said:
Not at all.
Let me explain...
Morality owes its existence to freedom because If we arent free to make a choice there is nothing to be moral about.
Immanuel Kant said that not me.
I took that thought a little further by applying it to the police. Who in some ways detract from our freedom. Eg by stopping us from taking drugs in our own space.
Law is simply what we must and must not do in the eyes of those with the power to enforce that ideal. Without the idea of morality though it can have no justification in the eyes of the wider rational world.
Because law by its very nature is an imperitive. It needs an enforcer. *Enter the police and their self nullifying shenanigans*
Everything human owes its existance on some level to freedom. That is why IMO it is the most important thing in society and individual life.
I hope I have cleared things up for you somewhat. Thank you for asking me to as I am clearer about what I have just said than ever I was.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
deeplight said:
But that's not all they do. They give the freedom to live unmolested in your house [usually] without people breaking in to kill you or rob you. They allow you to drive down the street with a reasonable expectation that the rules you understand will be obeyed by other drivers. etc.
The police therefore are both preventing you from doing whatever you like, but they are also preventing others from doing things to you, that would impinge upon your freedom.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
NoEgo said:
Yeah, when I was in university.
Here we go said:I fucking do
are you mad at me
sure!
you dont
Johnny Canuck2 said:
I agree with you on that score but I never said that the police didnt defend freedom on some levels such as the ones you describe.
The name of the thread however is. "Why is the law an arse."
I merely sought to show how, on some levels the police are a self nullifying force.
I believe I have done this very clearly and shown that my point is not some kind of "Tautology that cant be gotten unless you delude yourself."
Police should simply be freedom protectors IMHO. Stopping People from impinging on the freedom of others, though there is some argument as to whether they can actually ever truly achieve even that.
It is the ideal, and any part of police work that is not serving freedom is a contradiction.
P.S. I have not read John Stuart Mills.
John Stuart Mill's essay on liberty http://www.constitution.org/jsm/liberty.txt
Liberty and democracy are not the same thing - hey, stating the obvious but ppl do seem to confuse the two, especially in the UK.
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
Liberty and democracy are not the same thing - hey, stating the obvious but ppl do seem to confuse the two, especially in the UK.
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
the law is an ass when technicality rather than morality is the soul of the law.
In fact there's a tension in English law about which of these is true, common law, the duty of care etc, suggests that actually morality is the soul of the law., but not many lawyers these days like that concept, and they're kind of trying to forget about it. But it's actually possible to make good arguments that in English law, it's actually currently illegal to pay tax, http://ecotort.gn.apc.org/
But basically, the law is an ass because they don't write at the top of the law what the purpose of the law actually is, and so the people who enforce it end up using it without purpose.
In fact there's a tension in English law about which of these is true, common law, the duty of care etc, suggests that actually morality is the soul of the law., but not many lawyers these days like that concept, and they're kind of trying to forget about it. But it's actually possible to make good arguments that in English law, it's actually currently illegal to pay tax, http://ecotort.gn.apc.org/
But basically, the law is an ass because they don't write at the top of the law what the purpose of the law actually is, and so the people who enforce it end up using it without purpose.
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