Why is everyone such an expert about Israel

[ViolentPanda]

Well, this debate is between people who seem hardly to be experts in biblical history, yet they are arguing with such deep conviction, like they're experts.

It's like one layman getting into a debate with another layman about open heart surgery, yet talking like they've done 50 each.

For example:

tangentlama: "a popular spot for battles if you read extensively on 18th Dynasty history"

Am I supposed to believe that tangentlama has read extensively on 18th Dynasty history? I didn't think so

In fact, you don't actually need to have read extensively to know this. I know it, and biblical history is far from being my favorite subject.

Have you actually asked tangentlama what tangentlamas' academic credentials are?
It is always worth doing so in cases like this.

I'm an economist so I do know quite a lot about economic development. The fact that you're too narrowminded to consider other opinions is another matter.

Are you? The so-called "dismal science"? That's nice for you.
But please don't wave your credentials in my face or I'll have to get mine out and that could possibly make you regret your "narrowminded" "fact".

there's a common set of errors by new posters which goes something like:
an assumption that all other posters are younger and/or less well-read:
an assumption that you hold a qualification that nobody else holds (as an aside we had an Eng Lit grad on another forum on this board demanding that people take his opinions as fact because he had a "degree level education" ) or has bettered:
an assumption that because somebody holds the opposite view to you in a debate, that they have a particular ideology (here's a clue: in debate you argue a viewpoint whether you believe in it or not).

BTW, please don't tell me you're an LSE grad. That would be too horrible.

 

[kasheem]

So what have you got a degree in Panda?

I haven't got a degree in case anyone wants to know.

 

[ViolentPanda]

So what have you got a degree in Panda?

I don't have "a" degree, kasheem, and especially not one in Panda.

I haven't got a degree in case anyone wants to know.

Of course you don't. You're much too much of a "working class hero" for that sort of thing, aren't you?

 

[CyberRose]

there's a common set of errors by new posters which goes something like:
an assumption that all other posters are younger and/or less well-read:
an assumption that you hold a qualification that nobody else holds (as an aside we had an Eng Lit grad on another forum on this board demanding that people take his opinions as fact because he had a "degree level education" ) or has bettered:
an assumption that because somebody holds the opposite view to you in a debate, that they have a particular ideology (here's a clue: in debate you argue a viewpoint whether you believe in it or not).

And dont forget if you have a degree people dont think you should have you are accused of being a liar! Especially if you have views not shared by the person accusing you of being a liar!

 

[ViolentPanda]

And dont forget if you have a degree people dont think you should have you are accused of being a liar! Especially if you have views not shared by the person accusing you of being a liar!

Or if you offer opinions that aren't consonant with the knowledge a degree you have would give you. Don't forget that one!

 

[kasheem]

I don't have "a" degree, kasheem, and especially not one in Panda.

Of course you don't. You're much too much of a "working class hero" for that sort of thing, aren't you?

Erm, not really.

 

[energy release]

BTW, please don't tell me you're an LSE grad. That would be too horrible.

Oxford and MIT actually

But please don't wave your credentials in my face or I'll have to get mine out and that could possibly make you regret your "narrowminded" "fact".

Don't really care what you're credentials are -- you're narrowminded.

Have you actually asked tangentlama what tangentlamas' academic credentials are?

Based on the level of his argument, I doubt that he has an academic background in biblical history.

 

[CyberRose]

Or if you offer opinions that aren't consonant with the knowledge a degree you have would give you. Don't forget that one!

No I covered that one in the second sentence!

 

[CyberRose]

Based on the level of his argument, I doubt that he has an academic background in biblical history.

Yea but all you need to qualify yourself as an expert on Biblical history is to read the Da Vinci Code (I also read HBHG which is equivelant to an MA!)

 

[ViolentPanda]

Erm, not really.

Now now, don't be modest!

 

[energy release]

Yea but all you need to qualify yourself as an expert on Biblical history is to read the Da Vinci Code (I also read HBHG which is equivelant to an MA!)

 

[ViolentPanda]

Oxford and MIT actually

Oh well, you have to respect someone if they don't do their postgrad work at their alma mater.

Don't really care what you're credentials are -- you're narrowminded.

In your opinion, and because I disagree with you? How very...well...narrowminded of you.

Based on the level of his argument, I doubt that he has an academic background in biblical history.

And you'd know that because of your extensive knowlwdge of biblical history, would you?
Or, perhaps, you're jumping to conclusions again, like you did with your quips about socialism and the obvious adherence of certain people to it.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yea but all you need to qualify yourself as an expert on Biblical history is to read the Da Vinci Code (I also read HBHG which is equivelant to an MA!)

Whats the Da Vinci code?

 

[energy release]

In your opinion, and because I disagree with you

Well, you're totally disregarding my views, no matter how reasonable they try to be. So I reserve the right to return the favor, especially since your views are somewhat extreme (to say the least).

And you'd know that because of your extensive knowlwdge of biblical history, would you?
Or, perhaps, you're jumping to conclusions again, like you did with your quips about socialism and the obvious adherence of certain people to it.

I don't need to be an expert on biblical history to know that he's found some obscure (and opinionated) source on the web, and he's reproducing it like it's his own.

 

[tangentlama]

The 'willy waving' of Academic Degrees as a means to belittling someone's perspective on any situation, whether that perspective be 'lay', or 'MA', is a sure sign that said willy-waver doesn't have any real knowledge of the subject being discussed, and is attempting to discredit the writer.

 

[energy release]

The 'willy waving' of Academic Degrees as a means to belittling someone's perspective on any situation, whether that perspective be 'lay', or 'MA', is a sure sign that said willy-waver doesn't have any real knowledge of the subject being discussed, and is attempting to discredit the writer.

Like "if you read extensively" isn't willy-waving.

I openly admit that my biblical history is poor, but I know enough to see that you don't know much either.

 

[tangentlama]

I don't need to be an expert on biblical history to know that he's found some obscure (and opinionated) source on the web, and he's reproducing it like it's his own.

No. You're incorrect. Perhaps this is your style, but certainly not mine.

What's your 'point' in your attempt to try to 'discredit' the brief overview which I wrote one day before the Ha'aretz article on Finkelstein ?

You wanna watch your accusations of plagiarism else we might all begin to be very suspicious of your presence here.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Will someone please tell me what the Da Vinci code is?

 

[tangentlama]

Will someone please tell me what the Da Vinci code is?

I've never read it either. I much prefer Plutarch's De Iside et Osiride. I'm quite fond of Pliny too.

 

[energy release]

For example:

the Priesthood and Politicians were very thorough to ensure that no written records contrary to their cause survived

I know enough to say that this is rubbish. There are plenty of examples of such fragments in existence. The Dead Sea Scrolls for example.

Besides, I also know enough to say that we shouldn't be surprised that there are relatively few other fragments. The climate of Israel is very poor for preserving ancient scrolls. Also, many many scrolls were destroyed by the Romans, the Byzantines, the Arab/Muslim invaders, the Crusaders, etc. Blaming it on the Jewish priests and politicians (i.e. an ancient conspiracy theory) stinks of an agenda.

 

[energy release]

I've never read it either.

Me neither.

 

[ViolentPanda]

For example:




I know enough to say that this is rubbish. There are plenty of examples of such fragments in existence. The Dead Sea Scrolls for example.

Besides, I also know enough to say that we shouldn't be surprised that there are relatively few other fragments. The climate of Israel is very poor for preserving ancient scrolls. Also, many many scrolls were destroyed by the Romans, the Byzantines, the Arab/Muslim invaders, the Crusaders, etc. Blaming it on the Jewish priests and politicians (i.e. an ancient conspiracy theory) stinks of an agenda.

As you say, preservation is at least partially related to climate, but it's also related to the materials used.

For example, a lot of Sumerian info survives because it was set on clay tablets, some of the dead sea stuff was etched on copper or brass, as well as some being on parchment (parchment being animal skin).

What is undeniable is that new powers in a land do sometimes attempt to systematically erase history. This leads to a ituation where we can only speculate , in a more or a less informed manner.
We can look at the Soviet Union for a cracking 20th century example of an attempt at historical revisionism through record amendment and destruction.

 

[CyberRose]

Will someone please tell me what the Da Vinci code is?

I've never read it either. I much prefer Plutarch's De Iside et Osiride. I'm quite fond of Pliny too.

Me neither

Bloody heathens!

 

[ViolentPanda]

Bloody heathens!

Right, so I now know it's a bloody book.

So what is it about?

 

[CyberRose]

Right, so I now know it's a bloody book.

So what is it about?

Its about 700 pages I think?

 

[tangentlama]

Right, so I now know it's a bloody book.

So what is it about?

It can't be about ancient languages, else I'd have read it by now

 

[tangentlama]

As you say, preservation is at least partially related to climate, but it's also related to the materials used.

For example, a lot of Sumerian info survives because it was set on clay tablets, some of the dead sea stuff was etched on copper or brass, as well as some being on parchment (parchment being animal skin).

What is undeniable is that new powers in a land do sometimes attempt to systematically erase history. This leads to a situation where we can only speculate , in a more or a less informed manner.
We can look at the Soviet Union for a cracking 20th century example of an attempt at historical revisionism through record amendment and destruction.

Nail on Head, Panda. Nail on Head.

Did you know that the Phœnicians were writing to Ahknaten during the 18th Dynasty on clay tablets in CUNEIFORM begging for reinforcements against insurgents?

 

[ViolentPanda]

It can't be about ancient languages, else I'd have read it by now

I did something I now regret. I went to amazon and did a search. It sounds like a pot-boiler of every conspiracy theory and piece of speculative archaeology ever thought of.

Then I checked out some independent reviews of it.

Is it really as badly written as it sounds?

 

[tangentlama]

I did something I now regret. I went to amazon and did a search. It sounds like a pot-boiler of every conspiracy theory and piece of speculative archaeology ever thought of.

Then I checked out some independent reviews of it.

Is it really as badly written as it sounds?

I've avoided it for exactly those reasons. Sounds like syncreticism gone insane, but as I haven't read it, I can't really answer that question.

 

[rghthrerightnow]

so i should take this off my list of things to read given the above then?