Why is Che such a hero for many on the left?

[isitme]

This is like a backtrack, plus a sideways jog to the sideline.

his appeal is romantic

he won wars and wrote poems

there isn't an 'oh yeah but...'

that's the appeal

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

his appeal is romantic

he won wars and wrote poems

there isn't an 'oh yeah but...'

that's the appeal

The backtrack and jog is you saying he could have been a leader, but decided to go to the jungle and fight capitalism 'for the people'.

As it turns out, according to butchers, he tried to lead, was really crap at it, and sulked off to Bolivia to shoot some people.

Probably transferred aggression toward Fidel and Raul.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Can't be arsed to read the thread but I've often wondered it myself.

It seems to be the "in" thing to wear.

When I were a lad, we wore James Dean t-shirts
































well I did anyway

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I think the guy's main appeal is the t shirt. He looks good on the t shirt. He resurrected the beret in precincts outside of Montparnasse. He brought in the sideburn, long after Flashman was dead. He had an anarchist look that every man could aspire to, even if almost everyman doesn't know sweet fuck all about anything the guy did, aside from 'he fought capitalism'.

 

[isitme]

The backtrack and jog is you saying he could have been a leader, but decided to go to the jungle and fight capitalism 'for the people'.

As it turns out, according to butchers, he tried to lead, was really crap at it, and sulked off to Bolivia to shoot some people.

Probably transferred aggression toward Fidel and Raul.

well that's one way to look at it

from the biography i read he was a pretty disastrous politician and became disillusioned with the whole thing and decided to go back onto the battlefield (unsuccesfully)

i suppose it could also confirm the theory that even if you do something amazing that at the end of the day you are just going to fail at something and then die

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

i suppose it could also confirm the theory that even if you do something amazing that at the end of the day you are just going to fail at something and then die

Sometimes, your negativity is almost appealing, which just goes to show what a sick sick individual I can be...

 

[Belushi]

I very much look forward to the day when they all get shot without judicial process after the revolution.

Thats the spirit comrade.

 

[N_igma]

Thats the spirit comrade.

You're kidding right?

 

[butchersapron]

No he ain't you counter revo cocksucker.

Self-critique - NOW!

 

[ViolentPanda]

When he was captured in Bolivia, how many locals were with him?
His homophobic and racist views, did he reject them at a later date?

His views, distasteful as they are, were of their time and culture. Using them as a stick to beat him with nearly 50 years after his death is, to put it mildly, disingenuous.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

His views, distasteful as they are, were of their time and culture. Using them as a stick to beat him with nearly 50 years after his death is, to put it mildly, disingenuous.

What, talking of blacks and their penchant for not washing?

That was racist even back then. And all the more surprising coming from the mouth of an 'egalitarian'.

Sort of like priests back in the 1800s preaching brotherly love, but somehow finding a way to exclude slaves.

 

[N_igma]

No he ain't you counter revo cocksucker.

Self-critique - NOW!

Oh right...viva el revalucion etc etc.

 

[ViolentPanda]

What, talking of blacks and their penchant for not washing?

In the context of middle-class Argentina, where he "learned" those attitudes? Of course.

That was racist even back then. And all the more surprising coming from the mouth of an 'egalitarian'.

In North America, maybe. In most of the countries of South America though? Not so much

Sort of like priests back in the 1800s preaching brotherly love, but somehow finding a way to exclude slaves.

What the fuck else do you expect from priests (besides fellatio if you're young and comely enough)?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

In the context of middle-class Argentina, where he "learned" those attitudes? Of course.

He was able to see through the myths and fantasies of capitalism, which also surrounded him. Why can we not expect him to also be able to see through the myths and fantasies of racial stereotyping?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

What the fuck else do you expect from priests (besides fellatio if you're young and comely enough)?

He said 'comely'

 

[JimW]

He was able to see through the myths and fantasies of capitalism, which also surrounded him. Why can we not expect him to also be able to see through the myths and fantasies of racial stereotyping?

He did, in the same process of political awakening. Not his biggest fan by any stretch but this sort of trawling through his juvenilia is a bit of a desperate attempt to rubbish the man.

 

[Lo Siento.]

same as the international brigaders - people like the idea of idealists going off to fight for a cause, even if the reality of it is sometimes inconvenient.

(incidentally, why do these threads become excuses for inexplicable spanglishisms? Why write ´campesino´ when we have perfectly good English words to say the same thing? Unless the foreign word has an untranslatable meaning, using it is pretentious)

 

[butchersapron]

And they like fucking dolphins. The dolphin fuckers.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Why write ´campesino´ when we have perfectly good English words to say the same thing? Unless the foreign word has an untranslatable meaning, using it is pretentious)

Hadn't meant to be pretentious, I thought the word would be fairly well known around these parts and also that "peasant" tends to have negative connotations, often meaning backward or stupid. I suppose I could have said "agricultural worker" or "farm labourer" but they just don't have that same ring to them.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Writing campesino is fair enough, I think. We don't have a peasantry in the UK any more and as JR says, the word peasant has other connotations.

 

[dennisr]

"Lo Siento" - that's pretentious when there is a perfectly good english word to use

 

[Refused as fuck]

And they like fucking dolphins. The dolphin fuckers.

Ché's dolphin fucking antics probably do appeal to the European middle class types too.

 

[STFC]

i did my best to put che guevara's appeal to people who don't read books

he did write some good poems, and he won some wars

against gangsters to boot

you could put him in the tradition of folk heroes

his appeal is romantic

he won wars and wrote poems

there isn't an 'oh yeah but...'

that's the appeal

Of course there's an 'Oh yeah but...'. There always is. Or is he somehow above any criticism?

I don't know much about the man at all, I keep meaning to reading some books about him, but to suggest that his faults should be overlooked because he "won wars and wrote poems" is nothing short of ridiculous.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

"Lo Siento" - that's pretentious when there is a perfectly good english word to use

Hadn't thought of that - what a hipócrita!

 

[isitme]

Of course there's an 'Oh yeah but...'. There always is. Or is he somehow above any criticism?

I don't know much about the man at all, I keep meaning to reading some books about him, but to suggest that his faults should be overlooked because he "won wars and wrote poems" is nothing short of ridiculous.

the question was why he was seen as a hero by many. that is why i think he appeals to something abstract, beyond the left as well

of course he shouldn't be let off as a historical figure, but heroes always do. someone else gave the example of churchill, proper nasty old cunt in peacetime...

 

[STFC]

Fair point. Both horrible bastards but they won wars.

Che Guevara was prettier though, which is why he sells more posters.

 

[Mooncat]

Fair point. Both horrible bastards but they won wars.

Che Guevara was prettier though, which is why he sells more posters.

But not more porcelain figurines

 

[kyser_soze]

Because lots of them haven't realised that heroes, egalitarianism and a critical viewing of history don't mix.

 

[Blagsta]

same as the international brigaders - people like the idea of idealists going off to fight for a cause, even if the reality of it is sometimes inconvenient.

(incidentally, why do these threads become excuses for inexplicable spanglishisms? Why write ´campesino´ when we have perfectly good English words to say the same thing? Unless the foreign word has an untranslatable meaning, using it is pretentious)

There's an English word for lo siento too...

 

[Blagsta]

"Lo Siento" - that's pretentious when there is a perfectly good english word to use

darn, beaten to it!

sorry