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Why I don't get the train.

Where there is a genuine lack of opportunity to pay fares, then I agree.

This is no defence of deliberate fare-dodging when there is. In the vast majority of cases, there is the opportunity.

Putting ticket inspectors on every single train, and manning every single little station for every hour it's open would massively increase costs, probably by a greater amount than the revenue reclaimed from the fare-dodgers.

As for the "rest of Europe" - what exactly do you base this on? How many European rail networks have you travelled on in the last ten years or so?

Wow, good question.

Let's see: French, German, Italian, Croatian, Dutch, Spanish, Portugese, Swiss, Finnish... can't think of any more but I'm sure there are more to add there... and that's easily within ten years, with repeat visits.

On every single service - which incidentally arrived and departed on time - there was a ticket collector on-board.

The fare was a fraction of the ridiculous cost of our UK tickets, and you don't get treated like a criminal as soon as you take a seat.

I was stuck on a train for an hour this week, power failure at Clapham Junction on Tuesday morning.

No refund on my ticket though, oh no.

Fuck the lot of them. If they can't be arsed, neither can I.

And it's not about the money, it's the principle. If I can get on a train with a £20 note and tell them that I was unable to use the robot machine, they can take my word for it or they can get fucked. :)
 
the suburban train i used to take to commute in Spain had a ticket inspector on board about one in every thirty journeys.

When there were delays, which were frequent, there was rarely an announcement you had to watch for other trains coming into the station and guess which one might leave first. refunds were unheard of.

People talk up the continental rail systems but the reality is that my experience of the spanish system isn't all that wondrous.
 
the suburban train i used to take to commute in Spain had a ticket inspector on board about one in every thirty journeys.

When there were delays, which were frequent, there was rarely an announcement you had to watch for other trains coming into the station and guess which one might leave first. refunds were unheard of.

People talk up the continental rail systems but the reality is that my experience of the spanish system isn't all that wondrous.

To be fair I mostly used the Portillo buses, but the trains worked just as well as they do here, only for a fraction of the cost.

I thought the fascists were supposed to make the trains run on time!!
 
Depends where you are on the continent re ticket checks - but the basic thing is that the UK system expects the passenger to pay more for the costs of running the system - hence higher fares !


Keep out of this one - but its a fair point of social service versus commercial service (sort of !).......
 
Wow, good question.

Let's see: French, German, Italian, Croatian, Dutch, Spanish, Portugese, Swiss, Finnish... can't think of any more but I'm sure there are more to add there... and that's easily within ten years, with repeat visits.

Ok, well, in the last ten years, I've travelled on French, German, Dutch, Belgian, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, Croatian, Slovenian, Hungarian, Slovakian, Czech, Polish, Finnish, Norwegian, Swedish, Danish, Swiss, Austrian, Greek, Romanian, Irish, Belarussian and Russian railways.

With many multiple visits to a lot of those.

My experiences: mixed. Some with ticket inspectors on most services, some with ticket inspectors on very few. Certainly some with ticket inspectors who weren't going to give anyone the benefit of the doubt, like the Italian train last year from Verona to Venice where a couple of tourists had bought a ticket but not realised they had to validate it on the machine at the station, and were charged something like 50 euro each on account of this. Not strictly on a train, but much the same thing happened to me on a tram in a provincial town in Hungary. A surcharge for a valid but slightly incorrectly filled in railpass on a night train somewhere through the Czech republic. Etc etc.

On every single service - which incidentally arrived and departed on time - there was a ticket collector on-board.
Either you have been very lucky, travelling on a few premium routes, or are talking bollocks. The Italians, Spanish and various Eastern European states can do delays every bit as good as the UK can. And, there is many a service where I have been untroubled by a ticket collector at any point, even on long distance journeys, and that applies to pretty much every country I've listed.

The fare was a fraction of the ridiculous cost of our UK tickets, and you don't get treated like a criminal as soon as you take a seat.
So, fares. Firstly of course we have to bear in mind that a not insignificant consideration is what those fares are relative to local living costs and wages. That aside, I would say that low walk-up fares generally tend to correlate with high levels of subsidy. There's no doubt that the manner in which our railways have been privatised has introduced an awful lot of inefficiencies, but the fact remains that the level of subsidy given to our railways is a fair bit lower than in most other European countries. That is primarily what you should be blaming for most perceived shortcomings in standards of service, instead of franchisees running services badly.

I was stuck on a train for an hour this week, power failure at Clapham Junction on Tuesday morning.

No refund on my ticket though, oh no.
Why's that then? As far as I'm aware pretty much all operators will offer at least a partial refund if you're delayed for that amount of time. Did you ask?

Fuck the lot of them. If they can't be arsed, neither can I.

And it's not about the money, it's the principle. If I can get on a train with a £20 note and tell them that I was unable to use the robot machine, they can take my word for it or they can get fucked. :)

When you say "they can't be arsed" - this is a rather vague statement and one that you haven't backed up with any kind of explanation. What do you mean by "can't be arsed"? Not believing you when you've lied about non-existent difficulties in purchasing a ticket (even though you have also claimed it's a fool-proof method that means you never have to pay a penalty fare)?

And what is the "principle"? Is the principle that we need to assume everyone is dishonest, and then spend massive amounts of money ensuring there is not the smallest loophole anywhere that woudl allow anyone to travel without paying the correct price (ultimately increasing the cost for everyone, dishonest or otherwise, whether through fares, increased subsidy, or enforced reductions of service due to lack of funds)?

It's not like I'm particularly inclined to defend most UK train operators, and I'm certainly no fan (and never was) of the way our railways have been trashed by the way in which they were privatised, but it does seem that whenever I hear someone trying to justify their fare-dodging activities, all the mumbling about the state of our railways (usually with a load of ill-infomed mythical stuff about how everywhere else in Europe is so much better* thrown in) is basically just a flimsy cover for the fact that they don't want to pay for what most people do - and the fact is, that if they don't pay for it, someone else does, indirectly or otherwise.




*In some cases it is, but this is almost universally the result of higher subsidy levels.
 
Depends where you are on the continent re ticket checks - but the basic thing is that the UK system expects the passenger to pay more for the costs of running the system - hence higher fares !

Davesgcr speaks the truth as usual.
Keep out of this one - but its a fair point of social service versus commercial service (sort of !).......

And avoids getting into the politics as usual.
 
To be fair I mostly used the Portillo buses, but the trains worked just as well as they do here, only for a fraction of the cost.

I thought the fascists were supposed to make the trains run on time!!

A fraction of the cost - well, one way of making railways pay is to concentrate on a few profitable intercity routes and let the rest languish.

The Spanish rail system is much like ours would be if Beeching had got his way completely and then some.

Some very good high speed services, and maybe commuter services around Madrid.

Go anywhere out of the way and you're lucky to see more than two or three trains a day even if there happens to be a surviving rail line nearby. And the long distance routes that haven't been upgraded to high speed services - again, two or three services a day if you're lucky and they won't be getting you there very quickly.
 
As an aside on the Europe thing.
Transport operators are "not allowed" to run at a general loss.
Subsidies for public transport are there in the form of contracted service provision and negotiated common tarifs for local journeys.
 
I'm feeling kind towards trains today. I'm on the bus to Cardiff because I don't want to go all the way into the centre and the bus stops near to where I want to go. It will take twice as long as it will take the train to go further. Yet this bus ticket has cost me more than the train. That's not right!
 
Those fucking lying bastards at Cambridge working for Eastern Railways (or whatever they're called) cheated me out of £20 with the same bullshit last year. The appeal was a total waste of time.

Similar thing happened to me. My appeal was 1 day late so they stuck an extra £20 on my fine. :mad: Fucking parasites.
 
When I had a penalty fare I deliberatey wasted their time and resources paying it and when I was sure it had cost them more money than they received, told them so.
 
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