Why do the middle class support revolution?

[Sorry.]

exposure to idiots posing as the elite...

 

[poster342002]

It's balls, "middle class" people work shit dead-end jobs same as everyone else, and live on the same small planet being fucked up by capital. Some "m/c" people oppose it for the same reasons everyone else does.

Whilst this is true, it doesn't stop them gladly rubbing the working classes noses in the middle classes petty authority.

 

[magneze]

Whilst this is true, it doesn't stop them gladly rubbing the working classes noses in the middle classes petty authority.

When you become "management" do you automatically become middle-class?

 

[montevideo]

maybe a better way of putting it is why do middle class people support & work towards the emancipation of The Working class if that emanicpation goes against their own class interests?

If the conditon of The Middle Class is to maintain liberal democracy, individual private property, social mobility, & reinforce the legal form around such endeavours, it is also their role to ensure this continues undisturbed.

 

[poster342002]

When you become "management" do you automatically become middle-class?

I think the answer to that is yes.

 

[scawenb]

Could somebody tell me what you mean by 'middle-class'? Different people seem to have different definitions of it.

Yes I know. For many on here it is just an insult against people playing at radical politics.

I'm afraid I used revolutionary in order to avoid - communist, anarchist, socialist, Trotskyist, etc. Basically it meant "middle class people who support the overthrow of capitalism by and for the working class".

I don't think it is just a matter of individuals but that many are fighting for a society which would remove their priveledged position which I think is an intersting phenomenon.

 

[mk12]

Some people claim teacher's are 'middle-class'. But they would not lose their 'priveleged position' in a socialist society. It could be the case that they would have more control over their job.

 

[poster342002]

I don't think it is just a matter of individuals but that many are fighting for a society which would remove their priveledged position which I think is an intersting phenomenon.

I don't think they are. I think they fully expect to maintain those priveledges afterwards. They want the upper classes off their backs, but want to remain on ours.

 

[magneze]

I think the answer to that is yes.

Why?

You're just making arbitrary class divide decisions aren't you?

 

[mk12]

Why?

You're just making arbitrary class divide decisions aren't you?

Because they have a certain amount of power over other working class individuals.

 

[poster342002]

Because they have a certain amount of power over other working class individuals.

Indeed.

 

[mk12]

Indeed.

Wouldn't Michael Albert call them the 'co-ordinator' class?

 

[magneze]

Because they have a certain amount of power over other working class individuals.

Interesting, it's that simple you think?

 

[mk12]

I don't necessarily think that, but I know that is why others think that those who hold management positions are middle-class.

 

[poster342002]

Wouldn't Michael Albert call them the 'co-ordinator' class?

I've often used the term "quasi-bourgeois" to describe this group.

In lots of ways, I think they are the new petit-bourgeoisie. They feel squeezed by the upper-classes, yet hate the idea that they give up their "right to manage" and bully the workers. Or "their staff" as they'd put it.

 

[kropotkin]

That is not the way anyone on this board uses that term.

 

[rednblack]

some middle class people are genuinely in favour of total social change, most who pretend to be really only want to elevate themselves and use the working class to do that

most middle class people are understandably not interested in revolution as they have decent pay and conditions

 

[scawenb]

Some people claim teacher's are 'middle-class'. But they would not lose their 'priveleged position' in a socialist society. It could be the case that they would have more control over their job.

Well I don't think they'd be on the same relative salary and for many to live outside the communities they serve.

Personally I'm middle class - I had an alright upbringing and now have a cosy office job and in any future society would expect to work harder for less. I certainly wouldn't waste my time fighting for a society in the expectation of being economically better-off.

I'm afraid for me it is intellectual - which has profound consequences. If I were there on the barricades with someone who really did have nothing to lose but their chains then I wouldn't expect them to trust my commitment. I think that history shows many examples of such betrayals and also that if your life feels easy and comfortable then you may have second doubt about risking it. If you have not and have to fight to live then you are in a different situation.

 

[Thora_v1]

in any future society would expect to work harder for less.

I don't see why we'd have to work harder for less. Hopefully we'd be abolishing work all together.

 

[magneze]

I don't see why we'd have to work harder for less. Hopefully we'd be abolishing work all together.

LOL, yeah everything would just "happen" ... I wish this too!

*starts to daydream*

 

[Thora_v1]

LOL, yeah everything would just "happen" ... I wish this too!

*starts to daydream*

I'm not saying everything would just happen, but the vast majority of work we do now is totally unnecessary. Bob Black's The abolition of work is worth reading I believe.

No one should ever work.

Work is the source of nearly all the misery in the world. Almost any evil you'd care to name comes from working or from living in a world designed for work. In order to stop suffering, we have to stop working.

 

[mk12]

What if work becomes fun? I sometimes enjoy doing work.

 

[Thora_v1]

What if work becomes fun? I sometimes enjoy doing work.

Then it wouldn't be work, it would be play. And that would be good

 

[magneze]

Then it wouldn't be work, it would be play. And that would be good

Thora for Prime Minister!

 

[Thora_v1]

Thora for Prime Minister!

Woohoo! Oh, wait, no - I reject power and hierarchy and all that

 

[scawenb]

I love the middle class fantasy that the badness and wickedness of capitalism could just be stopped over-night and we all live in a perfect world. Perhaps they could even convince the bourgoeisie and then there wouldn't even be the nastyness and disruption of the change-over.

Do let me know whan you've managed it as I'm sure we'd all love to join you. In the meantime.....

 

[Solidarnosc]

Woohoo! Oh, wait, no - I reject power and hierarchy and all that

Ha! Uncovered! I bet you habour ambitions of being the next Thatcher...

I'm on to you you wrong'un...

 

[Thora_v1]

I love the middle class fantasy that the badness and wickedness of capitalism could just be stopped over-night and we all live in a perfect world. Perhaps they could even convince the bourgoeisie and then there wouldn't even be the nastyness and disruption of the change-over.

Do let me know whan you've managed it as I'm sure we'd all love to join you. In the meantime.....

No - we're going to have to shoot a lot of people in the face to get there

 

[magneze]

No - we're going to have to shoot a lot of people in the face to get there

With water?

Oh no, that's another thread ...

 

[Solidarnosc]