Why do people buy into the idea of the bankrupt US as a superpower?

[Backatcha Bandit]

Cheney's right, though. The 'system' is predicated upon debt.

 

[Dr Jon]

Yes, wow......

but you are $-862,300,000,000 up the shiter

No, you missed the leading '8': it's $8,831,925,401,459 and increasing rapidly...


ETA:
in the time it took to post this message, it increased to $8,831,932,718,118.
That's ~ $7,500,000 every five minutes or so... 'Kinnell!

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

can you imagine what the abnk is charging for the letters about that... maybe the us wants to try recovering it's bank charges....

 

[Columbine]

It's not just lot's of weaponry or the willingness to use it. The US economy is huge. Despite the nat debt growing alarmingly fast (they say it will have about doubled during Bush's 8 yrs in office), the GDP is still way above any other country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

Yes excellent point.

Or this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures World military expenditure.

To quote,

World Total 1,164,254,167,000 $ (thats 1.164 TRILLION dollars)

AND HALF OF IT IS:

United States 532,800,000,000 $


The only world superpower, I think you get the picture.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Yes, wow......

but you are $-862,300,000,000 up the shiter

How does that matter?

They own a mint.

 

[butchersapron]

=massive domestic inflation, collapse of dollar in international money markets.

 

[ZAMB]

Another relevant article

US debt could trigger dollar collapse, UN warns

http://pressesc.com/01180629622_dollar_falls

 

[nino_savatte]

=massive domestic inflation, collapse of dollar in international money markets.

Another disconnected statement from torres. Say, torres, your style looks awfully familiar.

 

[butchersapron]

Another disconnected statement from torres. Say, torres, your style looks awfully familiar.

Nino stop being silly and following me around. That was not a disconnected statement - it was a direct follow on post to JC2's post. It was saying that the US using it's right of seignorage to recklessly print money in order to pay off it's debt in devalued dollars would lead to massive domestic inflation and the collapse of the dollar in international money markets.

Now if you have nothing to add to the thread please leave it - or at least let the serious posters comment in peace.

 

[nino_savatte]

Nino stop being silly and following me around. That was not a disconnected statement - it was a direct follow on post to JC2's post. It was saying that the US using it's right of seignorage to recklessly print money in order to pay off it's debt in devalued dollars would lead to massive domestic inflation and the collapse of the dollar in international money markets.

Now if you have nothing to add to the thread please leave it - or at least let the serious posters comment in peace.

I'm not "following you around". You're pretty handy with the smears - aren't you?

Funny how you never actually quote the persons post that you're replying to. Very, very familiar. How's yer pal, Lusty?

 

[butchersapron]

Nino, the = sign connected my post to JC2s - no one else had trouble working out what i meant, inded the next poster expanded on just what might trigger dollar collapse and what it might look like.

I don't think that not quoting a post is against the FAQS. Now would you please stop before you destroy yet another intersting thread.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The US has the largest economy and military in the world, that kind of speaks for itself. The US also retains massive "soft power", American culture is exported through TV, movies, music, food and dress.

As a famous American novelist who just passed remarked, "so it goes".

Hmmm. He also disowned the US at the end of his life.

He wasn't quite as phlegmatic about it as all that.

 

[nino_savatte]

Nino, the = sign connected my post to JC2s - no one else had trouble working out what i meant, inded the next poster expanded on just what might trigger dollar collapse and what it might look like.

I don't think that not quoting a post is against the FAQS. Now would you please stop before you destroy yet another intersting thread.

Another smear! You're a real dab hand at this sort of thing, aren't you?

I have an interest in this thread too. I'm sorry if you don't like that, troll boy but tough.

 

[butchersapron]

I'd be interested in seeing a detailed breakdown of the internal composition of this debt and the uses to which the money is being put - there's a multitude of things that the term debt can hide. For example, contrary to some popular conceptions of fat yanks borrowing more and more to fund personal consumption, a steadily growing part of this debt is borrowing to fund health insurance, education or to pay for health care etc i.e necessities.

Also, the already super-rich top 10% of the population recieves the vast amount of this debt for their consumerism, the money then is recycled as wages for the ever increasing part of the population in the low-wage, no-benefits serivce work economy. The consumption patterns of the rich then become a very strong influence on the wider economy.

The word 'debt' alone isn't really capable of conveying these sorts of facts.

 

[butchersapron]

Another smear! You're a real dab hand at this sort of thing, aren't you?

I have an interest in this thread too. I'm sorry if you don't like that, troll boy but tough.

Well, in that case would you please stop trying to wreck it and maybe offer something interesting or helpful instead. Ta!

 

[nino_savatte]

Well, in that case would you please stop trying to wreck it and maybe offer something interesting or helpful instead. Ta!

What? Like you tried to wreck my threads? You've got some brass neck, pal.

I've got your number.

 

[butchersapron]

Someone else tell him...

 

[biff curtains]

Someone else tell him...

Leave it Darrin 'es not werf it!

 

[A Dashing Blade]

AFAIR a very large proportion of that debt is held by china - which seems to me a rather precarious situation for the US. Couldn't China eventually establish themselves as the predominant superpower, whenever they're ready, just by calling in this loan and thus destabilising the dollar?

Thought this one through the other week weirdly enough, my best guess would be that America would simply cancel the debt (that portion held in the form of TBonds anyway) paradoxically leading to a rise in the dollar.

 

[nosos]

Is it because the US has the most weapons, the most belligerence, the most arrogance, the most willingness to attack other countries and steal their assets?

Like you say, it's really rather powerful. In fact one might almost go out on a limb and say it's uniquely, gosh perhaps even super-powerful.

I see your point though. It's just that US hegemony and its post Bretton-woods economy centrality mean that it's not an issue like it would be with any other country.

 

[Columbine]

World Total of military expenditurre - 1,164,254,167,000 $ (thats 1.164 TRILLION dollars)

AND HALF OF IT IS:

United States 532,800,000,000 $


The USA is the world's only military superpower.

However, mass movements against the US might buck the trend, particularly if some of it came from within the USA.

Neutron bombs, spy planes, military robots and (you know the little things that re-arrange atoms) suggest to me that the world is fucked!

But you already knew that

 

[Dr Jon]

The USA is the world's only military superpower...

And as we see in Iraq, being a superpower solely in terms of military hardware has its limitations...

However, mass movements against the US might buck the trend, particularly if some of it came from within the USA.

Neutron bombs, spy planes, military robots and (you know the little things that re-arrange atoms) suggest to me that the world is fucked!

You're not wrong. As far as threats to the USA (and the rest of the World) are concerned, my money is on catastrophic climate change. No amount of military hardware is going to stop that.


ETA
Just spotted this:-

I see that the debt rose significantly in the Reagan / Bush-1 years, slowed a bit under Clinton and spiralled out of control under Bush-2.

 

[jonH]

Surely Hollywood has pushed American ideas to the forefront of peoples minds and the Military just join the dots

 

[Columbine]

And as we see in Iraq, being a superpower solely in terms of military hardware has its limitations...

You're not wrong. As far as threats to the USA (and the rest of the World) are concerned, my money is on catastrophic climate change. No amount of military hardware is going to stop that.


ETA
Just spotted this:-

I see that the debt rose significantly in the Reagan / Bush-1 years, slowed a bit under Clinton and spiralled out of control under Bush-2.

Whilst I studied economics briefly, I find it fascinating that the USA could be in debt, and I don't understand how.

If they are the richest country, how can they be in debt?

Yet another of the vagaries of the capitalist system!

 

[ZAMB]

Whilst I studied economics briefly, I find it fascinating that the USA could be in debt, and I don't understand how.

If they are the richest country, how can they be in debt?

Yet another of the vagaries of the capitalist system!

I think [at its most simple] that it's a bit like those people who have a good job, but live way beyond their means using credit cards. The debt will never be called in as long as the interest payments are met every month. Having the largest military in the world doesn't hurt though - would you call in a debt from someone who had a nuke aimed at you?

Also, I think someone else has already pointed out that this debt is largely not money in circulation, but is in the form of government bonds or banknotes bought up by other countries. I imagine that if every country tried to cash in their dollar reserves at the same time there could be a bit of a catastrophe though.