Why are Israel in the European Championship?

[TeeJay]

You could argue the same about the British Empire - all those pink (or was it red?) bits encompassing the Indian sub-continent, parts of the Caribbean, etc. etc. etc.

Exactly - different people will colour in their maps differently. Are you going to choose to colour in your mental map of the world with a great big line and label one side "Europe" and the other "Asia"? Why do you choose to do this, and why would you start basing decisions (for example about football) on this line?

Is it up to a rich and powerful people to decide which continent they want to belong to, which bits of which continent they want to control and administer...

Quite a leap of logic there there from talking about your own concepts of Europe and Asia to talking about people annexing and taking over areas in real life!

....or are (generally) agreed international borders between states and continents, based on pure geography - a fairer way of proceeding especially in something (supposedly) non-political like sport?

Country borders are hardly ever based on "pure geography" and are typically defined in a concrete way as the area which a government has (or claims) control over.

Continents aren't even defined in this way - there isn't a Europe government and an Asia government with control over each bit. People can propose geographical markers as "lines" but why pick one set of mountains or a river rather than another? Why make the division of the larger landmass in the first place? What is your fundemental thinking and logic that underpins this?

This thread isn't discussing a dispute about national borders. It is about Israel not being inside a region on the map people are labelling "Europe".

I am simply asking people to explain what they mean by "Europe" and why this part of their mental map of the world has any meaning or significance?

The biggest football teams around the world could easily compete in a "world league" if they wanted to. Why should a theoretical and vague concept about colouring in a wold map get in the way of how football leagues want to organise their sport?

 

[TeeJay]

Who was that, then? I don't think the cartographer drawing the lines was acting on his or her own.

There are many different versions of how many continents there are in the world:

"The 7-continent model is usually taught in Western Europe, China, and most native English-speaking countries. The 6-continent combined-America model is taught in Latin America, Iberia and some other parts of Europe. The 6-continent combined-Eurasia model is preferred by the geographic community, Russia, Eastern Europe, and Japan. In all of these cases, the names Australasia or Oceania may be used in place of Australia; in Canada, the government-approved Atlas of Canada names 7 continents and indicates Oceania instead. Historians may use the 5-continent model in which North Africa is separated from Sub-Saharan Africa and included in Eurasia (Jared Diamond) or the 4-continent Afro-Eurasian (Andre Gunder Frank)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continent

 

[TeeJay]

Who was that, then? I don't think the cartographer drawing the lines was acting on his or her own.

For your own mental map of the world, the one that is valid in your eyes and means something to you, the cartographer is *you*.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

Sorry but I can't - hence this thread.

Err, the fact that organizing fixtures between Israel and virtually any Arab/Muslim state in Asia would be nigh-on impossible, is a decent enough reason for allowing them to play in the Europe section as far as I'm concerned.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

I don't know why more people aren't making an angry fuss about the fact that Surinam, Guyana and French Guiana all play in the CONCACAF rather than South American section.

 

[ZAMB]

I was going to ask the question in the OP, until I found this thread.

Israel is unacceptable to most of the asian countries, so FIFA have allowed the country into UEFA.

IMO, not a good enough reason. If they want to play competitive sport, they should make more of an effort to get on with their neighbouring countries. Allowing them into Euro 2008 is just rewarding them for their bad behavior - and amounts to an endorsement of this behavior by UEFA. And what if Israel should win the cup - the European champions wouldn't even be European, which seems nutty.

Also, since football is a spectator sport, hosting its 'home' matches in other countries with no fans allowed seems a bit pointless.

AMSTERDAM, Aug 30 (Reuters) - Israel will play their Euro 2008 Group E qualifying match against Andorra behind closed doors in Nijmegen next Wednesday, the Dutch club has announced on their internet site.

UEFA, European soccer's governing body, have ordered Israel to play their home matches at neutral venues due to the security situation in the Middle East.

As an added precuation, no fans will be admitted to the match in Nijmegen

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/art...TRIDST_0_SPORT-SOCCER-EURO-ISRAEL.XML&src=rss

 

[goldenecitrone]

If they want to play competitive sport, they should make more of an effort to get on with their neighbouring countries.

Like the ones that want to see Israel wiped off the map. Nice neighbours.

 

[ZAMB]

Like the ones that want to see Israel wiped off the map. Nice neighbours.

This so-called quote has been dealt with on other threads - please read them as I'm tired of going over the same old thing.

The decision to admit Israel to UEFA was a purely political decision - geographically it makes no sense - unless you changed the name of the championships to something other than 'European'.

 

[goldenecitrone]

It would be rather exciting to watch a Syria-Israel game. I bet they'd have some good chants.

 

[Lock&Light]

This so-called quote has been dealt with on other threads - please read them as I'm tired of going over the same old thing.

The actuall content of the Iranian president's comments are irrelevant in face of the fact that most of Israel's neighbours want to wipe it from the map.

In fact, it is because those countries refuse even to recognise Israel and refuse therefore to participate in sporting competitions in which Israel is included. What they would do if drawn against Israel in the World Cup finals is as yet unclear as that has never happened.

 

[poster342002]

^^ That's also why Israel is in the Eurovision Contest

(though that's a bit more puzzling as there are no Asiavision Contests Israel would be made unwelcome at...)

I think with the Eurovision Song Contest it's a bit of a different kettle of fish. For instance, Libya is also signed up to send entries to the Eurovision but has never done so to my knowledge.

 

[ZAMB]

The actuall content of the Iranian president's comments are irrelevant in face of the fact that most of Israel's neighbours want to wipe it from the map.

This is your opinion, not a fact. So your opinions are superior to facts?

 

[Lock&Light]

This is your opinion, not a fact. So your opinions are superior to facts?

I think it is a fact, but even more to the point, so do the Israelis.

 

[joevsimp]

Israel used to be in the Asian footie confed, then they moved to Oceania til' 92 then moved to UEFA

 

[Haller]

I don't know why more people aren't making an angry fuss about the fact that Surinam, Guyana and French Guiana all play in the CONCACAF rather than South American section.

Fair play to them. If I were Guyanese, I'd rather be competing against the likes of Trinidad & Tobago and Jamaica than Brazil and Argentina. Sound survival tactics.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

Fair play to them. If I were Guyanese, I'd rather be competing against the likes of Trinidad & Tobago and Jamaica than Brazil and Argentina. Sound survival tactics.

Well, then why can't teams like Andorra opt to play in the Asian section then? THere'd be just as much of a case for it.

 

[Idris2002]

europe is located west of the ural mountains... as is most of kazakhstan...
whats your issue there?
the kazakhs have more right to play in the UEFA cup that the israelis

NONE of Kazakhstan is located west of the Ural mountains, dear boy.

 

[ZAMB]

Sorry to bump this thread, but given the much advertised UEFA campaign at present to 'kick out racism' it makes even less sense to have teams from a country which actively practices apartheid and ethnic cleansing, IMO.

Or does UEFA just shut its eyes to Israel's policies? This makes their current anti-racism policy a joke.