Who should i vote for in Hackney?
- Thread starter feerd
- Start date
no not in denial .. we were nieve as to your cynicism and we failed to get out our support ..
but yes i and many others are angry .. about this and the on going selling of england by the pound by the party you belong to ..
but i have asked you some clear questions ... you made allegations against us re arthur shuter and the tories .. they have been answered now i have asked you questions .. you can not answer them or refuse to
you are the one who is clearly in denial .. as to the party you appear to support ( though it is all a bit unclear what with you being a trot AND a blairite whether you are a infiltrator or true neo liberal
)
so to repeat ..
were you happy that your qoute was false??
did you come up with the 'they are more interested in dalston theatre' bullshit??
did you come up with the 'HI arn't interested in anti social crime' bullshit??
did you come up with the idea of putting independant in apostrophes??
and continually implying we were a front for the tories??
that we were all outsiders?? (irony there methinks!! you live further out of the ward than anyone!!!)
did you tell your colleagues you are a Trotskyist??
in fact are you a trot or are you now new labour??
etc etc
but yes i and many others are angry .. about this and the on going selling of england by the pound by the party you belong to ..
but i have asked you some clear questions ... you made allegations against us re arthur shuter and the tories .. they have been answered now i have asked you questions .. you can not answer them or refuse to
you are the one who is clearly in denial .. as to the party you appear to support ( though it is all a bit unclear what with you being a trot AND a blairite whether you are a infiltrator or true neo liberal
)so to repeat ..
were you happy that your qoute was false??
did you come up with the 'they are more interested in dalston theatre' bullshit??
did you come up with the 'HI arn't interested in anti social crime' bullshit??
did you come up with the idea of putting independant in apostrophes??
and continually implying we were a front for the tories??
that we were all outsiders?? (irony there methinks!! you live further out of the ward than anyone!!!)
did you tell your colleagues you are a Trotskyist??
in fact are you a trot or are you now new labour??
etc etc
durruti02 said:no not in denial .. we were nieve as to your cynicism and we failed to get out our support ..
but yes i and many others are angry .. about this and the on going selling of england by the pound by the party you belong to ..
but i have asked you some clear questions ... you made allegations against us re arthur shuter and the tories .. they have been answered now i have asked you questions .. you can not answer them or refuse to
you are the one who is clearly in denial .. as to the party you appear to support ( though it is all a bit unclear what with you being a trot AND a blairite whether you are a infiltrator or true neo liberal
so to repeat ..
were you happy that your qoute was false??
did you come up with the 'they are more interested in dalston theatre' bullshit??
did you come up with the 'HI arn't interested in anti social crime' bullshit??
did you come up with the idea of putting independant in apostrophes??
and continually implying we were a front for the tories??
that we were all outsiders?? (irony there methinks!! you live further out of the ward than anyone!!!)
did you tell your colleagues you are a Trotskyist??
in fact are you a trot or are you now new labour??
etc etc
What is this about "selling of England by the pound" you are going on about? I suggested earlier that you should think about the direction your politics is going. The above quote indeed suggests that you are going in a right wing nationalist direction.
The quote you refer to I presume was the one by Arthur Shuter "actively supporting" the Tories. I can assure you he did make it and I have the evidence to prove it. And Arthur knows it. You had no policy concerning crime and anti social behaviour in Haggerston. We merely pointed this out.
And Arthurs' support for the Tories and your groups refusal to disassociate yourself from it made it correct to put Independent in apostrophes.
You claim that you did not get out your support. But I suggest that you did get out your support. The problem for you was that several hundred more people supported us. I didnt go into this election underestimating the support HI had in Haggerston. Some people said to me that you were a spent force following your failure to win the 2002 election. But I knew this was not the case. However I knew that if we worked the ward hard we could bring out the Labour support that undoubtedly existed in greater numbers and win. Which is precisely what happened.
BarryB
BarryB said:
selling england by the pound?? it's a old saying dear! ..
dear oh dear ! you are clutching at straws if you tink that is proff of a right wing shift .. it refers to e.g. the 100s of billions of pounds of PFI deals labour has pushed thru amongst other things .. not to johnny foreigner but mostly to the wasp upper and upper middle class of this country ..
arthur did not actively support the tories as you well know .. he was too busy supportting HI and himself in haggerston ..he was one of 20 signaturies to boffs mayoral candidacy .. which he did in acknowledgement of boffs support for the broadway market campaign .. and i beieve he is on record saying he would support anyone trying to get labour out .. for the damage they have done to hackney over the years ( in haggerston ward 3 libraries closed .. one swimming pool shut .. part privatisation of housing and sell off of many housing estates .. good work so far barry )
i have already stated above i thought he should not have done this ..
HI as a political party has been around for 7 years in haggerston where actually we trounced boff in 2002 .. it is pure shit stirring to imply that we are a front for the tories .. shit stirring no less
in terms of anti social behaviour you being out of the ward, for is it 40 years?, may not have noticed the amount of times we have talked about this issue .. only last year we did a major survey on stanway and geffryre ( know where that is??) regarding this issue .. again your attack is purely shit stirring ...
.. and against who is this shit stirring taking place?? the lib dems?? the tories??? the bnp??? no .. it is against a clearly left wing pro working class party which prioritise the needs of tenats and residents on estates .. pathetic ..
and by the way was it johnny who advisies companies on PFI or you a trot who devised this strategy
durruti02 said:selling england by the pound?? it's a old saying dear! ..
it refers to e.g. the 100s of billions of pounds of PFI deals labour has pushed thru amongst other things .. not to johnny foreigner but mostly to the wasp upper and upper middle class of this country ..
arthur did not actively support the tories as you well know .. he was too busy supportting HI and himself in haggerston ..he was one of 20 signaturies to boffs mayoral candidacy .. which he did in acknowledgement of boffs support for the broadway market campaign .. and i beieve he is on record saying he would support anyone trying to get labour out .. for the damage they have done to hackney over the years ( in haggerston ward 3 libraries closed .. one swimming pool shut .. part privatisation of housing and sell off of many housing estates .. good work so far barry )
i have already stated above i thought he should not have done this ..
HI as a political party has been around for 7 years in haggerston where actually we trounced boff in 2002 .. it is pure shit stirring to imply that we are a front for the tories .. shit stirring no less
in terms of anti social behaviour you being out of the ward, for is it 40 years?, may not have noticed the amount of times we have talked about this issue .. only last year we did a major survey on stanway and geffryre ( know where that is??) regarding this issue .. again your attack is purely shit stirring ...
.. and against who is this shit stirring taking place?? the lib dems?? the tories??? the bnp??? no .. it is against a clearly left wing pro working class party which prioritise the needs of tenats and residents on estates .. pathetic ..
and by the way was it johnny who advisies companies on PFI or you a trot who devised this strategy
So there we have it from the horses mouth. Hackney Independent candidate Arthur Shuter is acknowledged to have supported the Tories to get Labour out. That destroys any pretence of independence in Hackney Independent.
Having several times leafleted every flat in Haggerston and canvassed at a lot of them im fully aware of every estate and block of flats in Haggerston. And I will get to know them a lot better in my four years as councillor. Especially as I will be working closely with the Estate Committees.
In these 4 years the three Labour councillors intend to be effective councillors for the residents of Haggerston. In the 2010 election these residents will judge whether we have been. Whether Hackney Independent will still be around in 2010 is debateable.
BarryB
JoePolitix
Gone
BarryB said:
I bought Paul Flewers' Orwell collection from you a month or two ago.
BarryB said:
"So there we have it from the horses mouth. Hackney Independent candidate Arthur Shuter is acknowledged to have supported the Tories to get Labour out. That destroys any pretence of independence in Hackney Independent."
grow up ffs ... theres lots of people from all sides wants labour out .. why??? not cos you are pro w/c or left wing or progressive .. no cos labour in hackney are a bunch of privatisers! selling off public space.. capisce?
you know you really do come across like some student politician .. more interested in bullshit .. the superficial .. more interested in smearing and scoring points than substance ..
which brings us back ... why no answers to peoples questions??
and hell they'll be a whole lot more when labour group decides to privatise this or that .. will you be following trotsky then or blair??
re the african vote and BB's accusations that our cognizance of what was going on there is somehow indicative of a right-wing nationalist bent, i personally witnessed a labour party cllr outside a polling booth telling african voters that if they did not vote labour they may not be allowed to stay in the country. not exactly conducive to good relations is it, by so explicitly racialising a local election in this way. i also understand that jon mcshane spoke at the 7th day adventist church - nothing wrong with that, but i do wonder what it was he said there... on the other hand it's clear that african voters do generally support labour. why that s/b so as durruti says is a mystery...
some of what BB says is true, of course. Hi overestimated its support and the lp turned out a very efficient machine. our vote was pretty much the same as 2002, while labour's (anomalously, given the national pic) increased significantly. they put in the hard work.
but they also lied.
re the tory thing - i find it ironic. actually most of hi's politics are closer to old labour in some respects than to toryism. while BB's party is actually a natural successor to thatcherism. fucking weird what a decade in politics can do...
i just wonder how BB can be so smug about winning an election for a party that is so spectacularly anti-w/c, especially given his trot provenance...?
some of what BB says is true, of course. Hi overestimated its support and the lp turned out a very efficient machine. our vote was pretty much the same as 2002, while labour's (anomalously, given the national pic) increased significantly. they put in the hard work.
but they also lied.
re the tory thing - i find it ironic. actually most of hi's politics are closer to old labour in some respects than to toryism. while BB's party is actually a natural successor to thatcherism. fucking weird what a decade in politics can do...
i just wonder how BB can be so smug about winning an election for a party that is so spectacularly anti-w/c, especially given his trot provenance...?
Divisive Cotton
Now I just have my toy soldiers
It's interesting to note that the Mayor of Hackney, Jules Pipe, singled out Hackney Independent for particular attention in his post-election address:
http://www.hackney-labour.org.uk/news/?id=260
As an old Republican once told me... it's when they start calling you the devil... that you know you're doing something right.
http://www.hackney-labour.org.uk/news/?id=260
As an old Republican once told me... it's when they start calling you the devil... that you know you're doing something right.
haggy said:
Just to point out that it wasant just hard work that won us this election. It was mistakes that HI made that enabled us to win ie Arthur being a loose cannon and the inability of HI to mention crime and anti social behaviour. But it was also the arrogance of HI members that helped spur our campaign on. The arrogance that said that because you had done a lot of work in the area and I didnt live in the ward that victory was guaranteed to you.
I await with interest your account of the campaign that you promise on your website. Im sure I will want to respond to it!
BarryB
Divisive Cotton said:
Some people in the LP thought that you were a fringe group who had peaked in the 2002 election and we shouldent worry too much about you. My view was that given our marginal victory in 2002 and the work you had put into the ward you had a reasonable chance to take the seat and that we should campaign on that basis. My view prevailed. So of course the Mayor was right to single out our victory and your defeat.
BarryB
nightbreed
Im Bored
Macullam said:
Good point Mac. There are some small fringe groups that slavishly follow stalins line , the NCP and the CPGB(M-L) spring to mind. But as for your point above ,this can be atttributed to other non stalinist groups who have fostered their own version of marxism.
The CPers I have met and worked within the TGWU are good workers and activists and genuine socialists but a bit confused when it comes to perspective or any clear principled position . For example there is obviously a clear difference between these cdes and cdes from the SP which is your tradition.Yet I would work with both groups as they are both socialist.
Would you describe RESPECT as a form of popular frontism and therefore stalinist??
BarryB said:
???? when did we make the point that you didn't live in the ward?
it was jon mcshane, iirc, that tried to nake some capital in meetings about where Hi candidates lived.
as for 'arrogance', i think that's a bit harsh - we are rightly proud of having mainatined a high profile in the area around a number of campaigns against new labour cuts. that you were able to waltz in having been largely invisible for the previous four years and win the ward sticks in the throat a bit, of course, but i wouldn't say we were arrogant. perhaps we took too much for granted, but that's a different matter...
Sean
Well-Known Member
BarryB said:
Sounds like the contradictions in Barry's past are answered here: he's chuffed to bits about his new found status as Jules Pipe's most favoured Mystic Meg -style tea leaf reader in Haggerston, and all set to climb the ranks of his rank organisation. It all smacks of craven careerism to me... New Labour to the core.
Divisive Cotton
Now I just have my toy soldiers
Sean said:
Barry's no Labour careerist - he has absolutely not chance of rising through the Labour ranks.
Sean
Well-Known Member
BarryB said:
So you gloat about defeating a group of local activists with roots in the community because they're not truly "independent"? Sounds like complete bollocks and if you have a modicum of honesty you'll recognise that too.
A quick look at Hackney Independent and Hackney IWCA newsletters for the best part of the last 6 years should make that perfectly clear.
So your alternative to creeping gentrification and insane PFI deals is ... more of the same. You must be proud of yourself, Barry.
Sean said:
I would be interested to know why Hackney IWCA no longer exists. I dont know if the Hackney members resigned to form the Hackney Independent or were expelled. Perhaps you know what the policy differences are? But one thing im sure of. And that is the IWCA would not tolerate one of their election candidates supporting the Tories under any circumstances. But if by any mischance one of them did they would soon be booted out rather than tolerated.
BarryB
Divisive Cotton
Now I just have my toy soldiers
BarryB said:
You really are a shit stirrer aren't you - which is the same reason why some cunt stuck an icepick through Trotsky's head.
Because of the occupation on Broadway Market the election campaign was drawn up at the very last minute.
We wanted Arthur to stand in Haggerston as either an independent or as Hackney Independent. Although we knew he wasn't particularly political, we knew he had wide experience in case work and as his efforts showed during the Broadway Market campaign he was up for a fight.
In this rush to get things sorted in the days just before nominations closed he made two moves 1 to call for a vote for anybody but Labour - he let his bitter hatred of Hackney Labour party get the better of any sound political judgement. and 2. signed Andrew Boff's nomination paper to be Mayor.
Before the Occupation Boff was the only councillor would deal with Arthur's concerns - the other two wouldn't even reply to his emails.
Of course he was niave to do such a thing, and his actions reflected on the organisation as a whole. But shit happens.
Unfortunately it was a mistake picked up on and used by dishonest politicians.
BarryB said:
.. yet again trying to shit stir instead of dealing with the real issues .. why not respond to what sean said?? in the past i would have been happy to debate differrences and agreements with HI and IWCA .. i had little idea that the second hand book seller from KX would end up deeply immersed in shit stirring / lieing / machine politics like this and not against, as i have said before, the tories or lib dems or bnp or ukip or cpa .. but against a pro community a pro w/c party .. one that prioritises supportting tenants and residents re the council / aniti social behaviour etc etc
and for which party have you thrown in your lot .. the labour party of jules pipe , guy nicholson and jamie carswell .. these people are more tory than most tories!!!!
and give us a Trotsky qoute to justify your politics! .. i'd love to see that!! .. you're, i hear, a national expert on trotsky so that shouldn't be hard should it??
p.s. i think you forgot to reply to my questions from before!
were you happy that your qoute was false??
did you come up with the 'they are more interested in dalston theatre' bullshit??
did you come up with the 'HI arn't interested in anti social crime' bullshit??
did you come up with the idea of putting independant in apostrophes??
and continually implying we were a front for the tories??
that we were all outsiders?? (irony there methinks!! you live further out of the ward than anyone!!!)
did you tell your colleagues you are a Trotskyist??
in fact are you a trot or are you now new labour??
and you know i'll add some more for now
what do you think of your new colleagues work at Luther Pendragon? (it pays well apparently 150k a year so thats nice) ..
and they advise companies on PFI deals .. you in favour of that??
how will you vote if labour group tells you to support the shit development at dalston?
how will you vote if there is a further vote to develop Lea Bridge CZ?
BarryB said:
i'm not sure what divcotton meant by that trotsky ref, but i think it more likely he was comparing you to stalin or mercader!
(also his claims that we only made one mistake in seven years s/b taken with a pinch of salt, too...)
but to reiterate a point bb hasn't responded to (unusually), to castigate a hi candidate for signing a tory nomination paper in the hope of diverting attention from the fact that his own party is an ideological continuum of thatcherism is really piss poor. so what about that, huh?
Divisive Cotton
Now I just have my toy soldiers
This whole Tory thing from Hackney Labour is laughable anyway when it was they only a few years ago who were in coalition with them...
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
who gives a fuck let's face it with ghosts false voters and many other things there was no chance of labour not 'winning' hackney was there...
barry people voted for you to do a job go and do it not piss about on a bulletin board doing fuck all, i mean i know you are a hackney councillour but still that doesn't give you the excuse to be bone fucking idle (even if that's the pipe culturall ethic...
barry people voted for you to do a job go and do it not piss about on a bulletin board doing fuck all, i mean i know you are a hackney councillour but still that doesn't give you the excuse to be bone fucking idle (even if that's the pipe culturall ethic...
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