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who are the real left and who are not?

OK, so this 'New Left' are only working class and born in the UK and everyone else is the enemy?

I'm all in favour of making Britain as self-sufficient in terms of industrial work as possible, reducing imports etc etc, but what is the role of non-industrial labour under their terms? Are we to cease to be a knowledge economy completely? Do roles such as marketing, financial work, academia etc. continue to exist or are they state run?

Is it a fully nationalised economy?

Do we have completely closed borders and no longer operate even an asylum immigration system? Similiarly, are the British allowed to emigrate?

If there are no groups currently how will we know if a new left-group set up is cod-left or Proper New Socialist left.

Who are the political theorists that influence the Proper Socialist Left? if there are none, should someone not start publishing in order to gain working class support. And who?

Is the new left parliamentary or revolutionary?
 
bluestreak said:
OK, so this 'New Left' are only working class and born in the UK and everyone else is the enemy?
Click to expand...

No - it would include the workig class and opressed anywhere. But in the first instance the movement would have to aim to attract the working classes and oppressed nearest to it wherever it first sprang up - as, as I say, it would be a coalescing of those people to begin with.

"pan-oppressdism" could be a term for it.
 
So, what's the new working class then?

Checkout worker
Non manangement call centre
Amazon warehouse staff
Estate agents who aren't managers
Junior copywriters at ad agencies who get paid less than minimum wage if you divide wages/hours

Other candidates?
 
KeyboardJockey said:
In parts. The Left as a movement has become divorced from those who it shold be serving that is those who have been left out of society.

What has happened is that those who have a social conciense have over the years been co opted into becoming in some cases authoritiarian arms of the state but sincerely still believe that they are doing good even though they are acting in a preachy and patronising way.
Click to expand...

Yes. The cod-left has become totally woven into the fabric of the pre-existing establishment to the detriment of the oppressed it now pretends to champion.
 
poster342002 said:
No - it would include the workig class and opressed anywhere. But in the first instance the movement would have to aim to attract the working classes and oppressed nearest to it wherever it first sprang up - as, as I say, it would be a coalescing of those people to begin with.

"pan-oppressdism" could be a term for it.
Click to expand...

OK, fair enough. Middle class people can't be Proper New Socialist Left though?
 
kyser_soze said:
So, what's the new working class then?

Checkout worker
Non manangement call centre
Amazon warehouse staff
Estate agents who aren't managers
Junior copywriters at ad agencies who get paid less than minimum wage if you divide wages/hours

Other candidates?
Click to expand...

A good start. There are others - such as victims of crime (especially organsied crime - which is a particularly nasty form of capitalist oppression), for instance. Basically, almost everyone who'se been under the heel of the boot in society.
 
On crime, one elephant in the room is that much of the rise can be ascribed to certain elements of migrants such as the latter day Fagins (yes, I know it was in the DM, but it is so apposite) who disgustedly use children as mini pickpockets. however, for many(some valid) reasons, the left will remain silent on this.
 
treelover said:
On crime, one elephant in the room is that much of the rise can be ascribed to certain elements of migrants such as the latter day Fagins (yes, I know it was in the DM, but it is so apposite) who disgustedly use children as mini pickpockets. however, for many(some valid) reasons, the left will remain silent on this.
Click to expand...

The cod-left are abysmally silent on all manner of child-abuse issues. At most, they patronisingly treat it's victims like victims of the weather rather than victims of a vile and culpable oppression that must be fought and vanquished.
 
Btw, KJ isn't an ASBO supposedly dealing with the perpetrators of crime, NL have developed lost of policies based on your kind of approach haven't they?. Perhaps a much more nuanced approach is needed, say 'Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime';)
 
I think ultimately a new left will develop, but to suceed it can't be proscriptive, it must recognise that people are complex things with plenty of idiosyncrasies and contradictions. Any attempt to create a one size fits all approach simply will fail.

oh, haven't I just described libertarian socialism in a way, so much for not using labels!
 
I remember reading AGES ago an 3 part article in the Guardian about the early days of the changes Labour tried to make to policing before the DM scared them shitless and Blunkett came in and did his hardman thing...was really interesting, lots of local community focus, looking at what was actually happening in localities rather than 'moral force' policing of the kind favoured by the DM...looked like a lost opportunity...
 
A new, proper left socialist movement would also include the many people on benefits - who are currently kicked around, forced to jump through humiliating hoops and treated like shit.
 
I see little future for the left unfortunatly.

Sad to think that Barnsley where i am now was the heart of the miners strike - the event that perhaps broke the left. You would be hard pressed to find much evidence of left wing views around here now. It seems that somehow the last twenty years have led to a massive swing to the right, as can be seen by the huge support the BNP have round here, and the woeful opposition, or left groups attempting to engage with those viewpoints. I reckon that the only reason they haven't got seats so far is most people just can't be arsed to go out and vote .

UAF had a presence at the local free music fest last year - some support, but the vast majority of local youth just wanted to give em a kicking:(
 
poster is clearly on drugs at the moment (he is far too happy...) and therefore excludes himself for his own criminal leanings -

so that leaves zero people in his 'new left' -

so who will take up the 'anti-cod' mantle?

who will save us now and will they wear their knickers on the outside of their tights?
 
real-left.jpg
 
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