Whitechapel Knees Up against Starbucks

[editor]

They have good music,comfortable chairs .....

Sounds like you're their perfect kind of customer and like things safe, predictable and homogenised.

Nothing wrong with that, of course, but I prefer things a little more interesting.

 

[editor]

I think that is in itself an oversimplification. What happened here, was that Starbucks started the 'coffee industry'. Before Starbucks, you had restaurants that of course served coffee on the menu, but it was a beverage consumed with a meal, for the most part. You didn't see people walking through the streets with paper cups, or plastic mugs full of coffee.

Here's what Starbucks do:

Each [Starbucks] store is designed to deliver the authentic coffeehouse experience. The only way to accomplish this and be profitable and competitive is by making all of the stores identical: the same beverages, food, ambient sounds and smells, even the same simulated coffeehouse interior wall treatments. Their products, services and spaces are quantified: eliminating any subjectivity or variance in their business practices, making all things measurable; homogenized: reducing the entire range of experience to one particular form; and commodified: everything is either directly for sale or in the aide of selling.

"Social interaction is even considered. All employees receive the exact same training for product handling, customer service, and store management, creating a cog-like work force that can be placed anywhere within the system of stores. The regulation of employees and store architecture both set a precedent for customer behavior, all unvarying, compliance-driven, and ultimately, non-social."
Each [Starbucks] store is designed to deliver the authentic coffeehouse experience. The only way to accomplish this and be profitable and competitive is by making all of the stores identical: the same beverages, food, ambient sounds and smells, even the same simulated coffeehouse interior wall treatments. Their products, services and spaces are quantified: eliminating any subjectivity or variance in their business practices, making all things measurable; homogenized: reducing the entire range of experience to one particular form; and commodified: everything is either directly for sale or in the aide of selling.

"Social interaction is even considered. All employees receive the exact same training for product handling, customer service, and store management, creating a cog-like work force that can be placed anywhere within the system of stores. The regulation of employees and store architecture both set a precedent for customer behavior, all unvarying, compliance-driven, and ultimately, non-social."

If that's the kind of thing people want when they go for a coffee, that's fine, but it's not for me.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Where's the cite for that?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Here's what Starbucks do:

If that's the kind of thing people want when they go for a coffee, that's fine, but it's not for me.

I'd go there if the coffee was more to my taste, but it isn't. Your blurb above sounds like the company training manual from most any large chain store selling operation.

I like different things at different times. Sometimes, a chain operation suits my needs for something quick. Other times, I'll spend some time in a coffee shop, and for that, I prefer a nice, privately run place.

What I don't like, is some self appointed clique trying to run Starbucks or other companies out of a neighborhood. It smacks of elitism: the clique knows what's good for the local people, even if they themselves don't know it. Bullshit.

 

[editor]

Where's the cite for that?

It's from here: http://www.delocator.ca

I don't think there's much chance of a website run by one person "running Starbucks or other companies out of a neighborhood."
What hope has he/she against the corporate clout and the billion $$$ advertising budget of Starbucks? All they're doing is highlighting choice and I can't see anything wrong with that myself.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

It's from here: http://www.delocator.ca

I don't think there's much chance of a website run by one person "running Starbucks or other companies out of a neighborhood."
What hope has he/she against the corporate clout and the billion $$$ advertising budget of Starbucks? All they're doing is highlighting choice and I can't see anything wrong with that myself.

I wasn't referring to delocator. I was thinking more of the original demo that was the subject of this thread.

 

[editor]

I wasn't referring to delocator. I was thinking more of the original demo that was the subject of this thread.

Mmmm.

Handful of protesters handing out a few free cakes and leaflets on one day of the year vs the corporate monolith of Starbucks and their billions of advertising dollars....

I don't think the protesters are going to win this one, Johnny.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

p.s. that delocator site sucks, it seems. I punched in my postal code. It came back with three non starbucks coffee shops, supposedly within 3km of my house. One of the coffee shops named is about 10 miles from my house.

In fact, there are probably about 50 non starbucks coffee shops within 3km of my house.

Also, after it listed the three coffee shops, the rest of the results were all ads for cialis and viagra. But all I wanted was caffeine..

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I checked out delocator. What's with all the ads for cialis and viagra?

 

[editor]

p.s. that delocator site sucks, it seems. I punched in my postal code. It came back with three non starbucks coffee shops, supposedly within 3km of my house. One of the coffee shops named is about 10 miles from my house.

You could, of course, help out by adding local cafes and reporting dodgy entries yourself.

That's how it works, you see.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Interesting: there are 12 starbucks within 3 km of where I live, and 57 non starbucks. Sort of puts the lie to the assertion that starbucks drives out the competition.

 

[editor]

Interesting: there are 12 starbucks within 3 km of where I live, and 57 non starbucks. Sort of puts the lie to the assertion that starbucks drives out the competition.

So you don't think that Starbucks has any negative effect whatsoever on smaller local businesses then?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

So you don't think that Starbucks has any negative effect whatsoever on smaller local businesses then?

Not really. I think that Starbucks is a different kettle of fish from a Wal Mart, or a Superstore etc. Those are big omnibus stores that bring in huge stocks of everything, and can buy cheap due to the economy of scale. Stores like that will have a negative effect on smaller businesses.

Starbucks is different. I don't know how it is in UK, but here, the price of a cup of coffee at starbucks isn't lower than it is at other coffee shops, so the price advantage isn't there to kill other businesses.

Also, I believe starbucks serves a specific market, which is for the most part, people buying coffee to take away, and as I said earlier, I think that Starbucks pretty much created that market.

We were probably the second city to get starbucks, after Seattle, where it was founded [I remember the original little stall they had, in Pike's Market]. I remember what it was like before starbucks. There are way more stand alone coffee shops in this city now than there were before starbucks. Starbucks created a greater demand, especially for specialty coffees, that saw a boom in the business that benefitted other retailers as well.

Finally, the established restaurants, coffee shops etc, are usually well entrenched, because they sell a good product. In this city, the customers of the Italian coffee shops haven't been stolen away by Starbucks, all the shops in the areas of italian concentration etc, continue to thrive as they have for years.

Unless the people of Whitechapel are particularly dense, with no palate for good coffee, the local businesses shouldn't have a lot to worry about.

 

[editor]

Starbucks is different. I don't know how it is in UK, but here, the price of a cup of coffee at starbucks isn't lower than it is at other coffee shops, so the price advantage isn't there to kill other businesses.

Really?
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1Y1-104035321.html

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Really?
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1Y1-104035321.html

Well, you managed to find one...
Exception, rule.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

You'll recall that my delocator search found 57 non starbucks, and 12 starbucks, in my vicinity.

Just based on the ones that I recognize, I counted 28 [non starbucks] cafes and restaurants whose opening occurred after the advent of starbucks here.

 

[becky p]

It's from here: http://www.delocator.ca

I don't think there's much chance of a website run by one person "running Starbucks or other companies out of a neighborhood."
What hope has he/she against the corporate clout and the billion $$$ advertising budget of Starbucks? All they're doing is highlighting choice and I can't see anything wrong with that myself.

Thank heavens for that! For a moment i was starting to think you were against people choosing to go to starbucks.
Are there many other Cafes in Aldgate/Whitechapel that i can get fair trade chocolate,tea and coffee?

 

[mk12]

Is Fair Trade stuff dearer?

 

[In Bloom]

Is Fair Trade stuff dearer?

That's pretty much the idea, isn't it? You pay more so that landowners get a "fairer" price for their wares.

 

[kyser_soze]

Is Fair Trade stuff dearer?

Depends on whether the café or retailer is prepared to take a hit on margin or not really - you'd expect it to be more expensive because of the higher initial cost, but ultimately that's something built into the profit margin.

E.g.:
Non FT coffee = 30p per kg
FT coffee = 60p/kg
Cost of a coffee = £1.50.
If the retailer is making 90p per cup (after non-stock overheads) then selling FT @ the same price will mean they get 30p margin per cup not 60p.

A good example of a Fair trade coffee place that sells cheaper is AMT - £1.65 for a cappucino and all their stuff is FT, compared with £1.90 from one of my local coffee places for non-FT, or £2+ from Starbucks...

 

[editor]

Thank heavens for that! For a moment i was starting to think you were against people choosing to go to starbucks.
Are there many other Cafes in Aldgate/Whitechapel that i can get fair trade chocolate,tea and coffee?

Why not get off your arse and find out for yourself, and then share the results with others on that website?

 

[barney_pig]

ot one to piss on the fireworks of those involved in this. but just to point out that the Reading RAGE group did this last year as a way of marking the G8 in hong kong.they chose the last saturday night before christmas and handed out hot soup and coffees to revellers whilst out site the starbucks in the oracle centre. it was bloody freezing but a good night out, and seriuosly pissed off the oracles security staff

 

[becky p]

Why not get off your arse and find out for yourself, and then share the results with others on that website?

As i'm not the one who thinks campaigning against starbucks,why do you imagine i would?
I still don't really quite get why people seem to have singled out starbucks?
They are one of the few large companies promoting fair trade and most of arguements against them seem to be that they are too popular.

 

[editor]

They are one of the few large companies promoting fair trade and most of arguements against them seem to be that they are too popular.

They don't "promote" fair trade. They reluctantly stock a tiny proportion of fair trade coffee and then use it to sucker people like you into feeling better.

Do you ask for fairtrade coffee when you buy your overpriced made-up-cinno in Starbucks? I bet you don't - if you did you'd know how it's not unusual to find that the haven't even got the stuff in stock after all.

 

[yokerist]

Hey dudes Chill out:

I live in whitechapel and I regularly frequent 3 non Starbucks local cafes:
None of them stock Fair Trade coffee however:

Fair Trade coffee can be had in Rampart, sometimes Larc and maybe freedom bookshop (in a bag)

AnyHow I was thinking if this "action" is to become a regular thing, will giving away coffee/tea/cakes etc actually have the potential of taking business away from the small local cafes?? (albeit once a month for an hour or two)

I mean a prospective punter who cops a free brew might give the marrakech/ alladinn etc a miss on that day???

Do you not think that the people who would accept a free brew from some long haired types are precisely the people who would not go into starbucks anyway:

just a thought?

 

[editor]

AnyHow I was thinking if this "action" is to become a regular thing, will giving away coffee/tea/cakes etc actually have the potential of taking business away from the small local cafes?? (albeit once a month for an hour or two)

It's not going to be a monthly event and I doubt very much if it would have any kind of meaningful impact on the takings of local cafes.

 

[Taxamo Welf]

Originally Posted by In Bloom
So Barristas United are "a bunch of middle class spotty (sic!) anarkids putting the world to rights in their bedrooms" are they?

Whoooosh! There goes the point!

what?! There goes *your* point surely? Spotty anarkids aren't knocking this, they are pinting out we already have an initiative around starbucks. Its a lot more successful than this event was too, not that i have problem with the Hijackers stuff.

I mean really what would you prefer, 3 - 5 hours of people not drinking in a starbucks and having a PIZZA HUT MEAT FEAST WITH EXTRA MEAT and a coffee outside, or unionisation of starbucks workers? I know which one starbucks would prefer.

fair play to the SH for this anyway, hopefully helped you link up locals as well as have a enjoyable protest.

(granted i haven't red 4 pages of this thread )

 

[Thora]

I mean really what would you prefer, 3 - 5 hours of people not drinking in a starbucks and having a falaffel and a coffee outside, or unionisation of starbucks workers? I know which one starbucks would prefer.

Falaffel?

 

[Taxamo Welf]

Falaffel?

i dunno, thats normally the kinda thing FNB do isn't it?

"a hot drink or a plate of hot food" is all thats on indy.

 

[editor]

(granted i haven't red 4 pages of this thread )

I wish you had.

I was actually referring - in generality - the kind of spotty anarchids who sneer at any kind of action that doesn't meet with their personal approval, but I'm obviously all for the unionisation of Starbucks workers. I thought I'd explained that earlier.

I'm not sure where you're getting this 'falaffel ' bit from, btw, but if you'd read my report you'd see that it was a falaffel-free zone when I was there. It was just tea, coffee, lovely cakes and sandwiches - I've even got a picture of the table for you to check!

*suggest Taxamo Welf does a bit more reading before wading in next time