White North American Male Novelists

[Johnny Canuck3]

right.

so it's either genre fiction, or women's issues hell? that's the extent of it?

If you want to read an author who brings a feminine perspective to the writing, without being overpowered by that point of view, try Joyce Carol Oates.

 

[trashpony]

just had a thought about those good ole George Elliot days (women having to pretend to be men to get published) - perhaps if we go back to those days, men might read us more...?

(not entirely serious - but there's a point in there somewhere)

Isn't that the reason JK Rowling didn't use her first name? And there are quite a few sci-fi writers iirc (Robin Hobb springs to mind but there are others I think) who write under a male or at least gender neutral pseudonym. Bit sad I think. I wonder how many people knew at first that Lionel Schriver was female?

 

[foo]

No. You brought up the fact that these authors are genre writers. I'd suggest that they're simply writers, and their sex is irrelevant.
No doubt women can write books discussing what it's like to be a woman, and that's fair, just as minorities write books about their experience, etc, but writers who choose not to write about their sex, or their minority experience, are just as legitimate.

what a refreshing post!

 

[foo]

Isn't that the reason JK Rowling didn't use her first name? And there are quite a few sci-fi writers iirc (Robin Hobb springs to mind but there are others I think) who write under a male or at least gender neutral pseudonym. Bit sad I think. I wonder how many people knew at first that Lionel Schriver was female?

oh yes, i'd forgotten about Lionel Schriver. and all the others that still feel they have to mask their gender to be taken seriously.

depressing ain't it.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

oh yes, i'd forgotten about Lionel Schriver. and all the others that still feel they have to mask their gender to be taken seriously.

depressing ain't it.

It often happens when they plan to write something that isn't a traditional 'woman's topic. They want out of the ghetto, so they disguise themselves.

 

[twistedAM]

American women writers I haven;t read for a while but recall that they're good:

Carson McCullers
Ann Tyler
Her that wrote Brokeback Mountain

 

[Dubversion]

No. You brought up the fact that these authors are genre writers. I'd suggest that they're simply writers, and their sex is irrelevant.

No doubt women can write books discussing what it's like to be a woman, and that's fair, just as minorities write books about their experience, etc, but writers who choose not to write about their sex, or their minority experience, are just as legitimate.

No. My point is that there is a whole world of writing between genre fiction and 'women's issues' writing, and it is here that women are under-represented or under-read - literary fiction or just general fiction. I wasn't criticising women writing genre fiction, as was quite evident.

 

[Dubversion]

what do you mean?

is Doris Lessing a genre writer?

you missed my point too. I'm not criticising women writers, i'm questioning why they seem quite widely read in genre fiction - sci-fi, fantasy, crime - but don't get the same recognition more generally. And I'm not saying women don't exist in this area either, just that it seems less common for men in particular to read them.

jesus..

 

[foo]

so, why do you think it is that you don't read women writers then Dubster?

 

[Idaho]

you missed my point too. I'm not criticising women writers, i'm questioning why they seem quite widely read in genre fiction - sci-fi, fantasy, crime - but don't get the same recognition more generally. And I'm not saying women don't exist in this area either, just that it seems less common for men in particular to read them.

jesus..

White american male modernist is surely a genre?

 

[Dubversion]

so, why do you think it is that you don't read women writers then Dubster?

i don't know, and that's part of the reason I started the thread. Some women writers I've loved - Carson McCullers has been mentioned, Jeanette Winterson, AM Homes - but I've not read enough and when i'm in front of a shelf in a bookshop, I just tend to gravitate towards male authors. And when I read reviews of books in the papers, it's generally those by male authors that appeal. What I don't know is whether women writers just aren't writing about the things I'm interested in, or whether I'm just not hearing about them...

AM Homes is the writer who springs to mind who's writing fiction in the area I like, the closest I've come to someone like Jonathan Franzen for example...

 

[Dubversion]

White american male modernist is surely a genre?

Genre in this sense means sci-fi, fantasy, crime, western etc.

 

[Idaho]

Genre in this sense means sci-fi, fantasy, crime, western etc.

Yes I realise what is meant by genre fiction. And I think it is generally a pejorative term when used by some sections of the literary/academic world for all fiction that is not modern american white modernist.

 

[Dubversion]

Yes I realise what is meant by genre fiction. And I think it is generally a pejorative term when used by some sections of the literary/academic world for all fiction that is not modern american white modernist.

well no, because genre fiction also doesn't include everything else that isn't scifi, fantasy or western or whatever. So British male and female authors, anyone from Europe or Asia or whatever..

 

[foo]

but I've not read enough and when i'm in front of a shelf in a bookshop, I just tend to gravitate towards male authors. And when I read reviews of books in the papers, it's generally those by male authors that appeal. ..

you see, i find that really depressing. and i'm not critising or having a go, i just do find what you say very sad. i suppose it's because i would hate to be limited to only finding white english female authors (for example) appealing when i'm in a bookshop or library.

open yer mind up dubster - take a risk and start reading women. lots of women. i reckon you'll be happily surprised!

 

[Dubversion]

i don't mean i gravitate towards male authors. I mean i gravitate to authors who happen to be male. If that makes sense. Because I've read reviews, read previous books, heard word of mouth. So when confronted by a bookshelf, i see the things that appeal through those kind of filters..

i don't think it's just my tastes though - women writers are under-reviewed, understocked, under-represented IMO.

but also, the areas I enjoy reading around aren't bursting to the seams with women writers anyway.

and i really don't think i'm being close minded at all. I'm not rejecting books because they're by female writers, i'm just not coming across books that appeal to me that ARE by women writers. Which is an important difference,.

 

[sojourner]

but don't get the same recognition more generally

By who?

And...I can't think of a genre for any of the female writers I mentioned.

 

[foo]

by whom don't you mean soj

Dub, i don't get your point of view at all. and i have tried to get it, plenty of times - because i've heard similar from other men, who are into reading, just not reading women.

ok, what 'areas' do you enjoy reading around?

 

[Dubversion]

Dub, i don't get your point of view at all. and i have tried to get it, plenty of times - because i've heard similar from other men, who are into reading, just not reading women.


ok, what 'areas' do you enjoy reading around?

I don't really know that it's that easy to explain

but for example, the last few books i've read and loved - Michael Chabon's Yiddish Policeman's Union (a kind of Jewish detective / noir novel alternative history set in Alaska); his Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Klay, a novel about the history of comics, life in New York around WWII; Harry Crews' the Gospel Singer - a swampy, American gothic novel about a corrupt preacher, a freakshow, a rape and a lynching; Jonathan Letham's Motherless Brooklyn, about a Tourettes / OCD suffering smalltime hoodlum; Cormac McCarthy's The Road - about a father and son struggling to survive in a post-apocalyptic hell.

not sure what links any of those books, and not sure that it tells you anything about why I read men more than women.

Actually, the best book I've read by a woman that I've not already mentioned is Katherine Dunn's Geek Love, about a freakshow. But that's pretty obscure.

 

[ChrisC]

Oh and back to white European's I also have Alasdair Reynolds "Century Rain" to read which as I bought it after seeing it recommended on this forum betterbe good!

Trust me your like it. The guys great a portraying female characters. PM me when you've read it let me know what you think.

 

[sojourner]

by whom don't you mean soj

... because i've heard similar from other men, who are into reading, just not reading women.

I'm ill, okay?

See, that's not been my experience with the men I know IRL - their reading patterns are the same as mine...a good mix of male and female writers

 

[Dubversion]

actually, for what it's worth Pie Face is pretty similar to me. She does read more novels by women than I do, but barely.. .

 

[sojourner]

By who?

So?

 

[claxton]

A fairly large chunk of the books I read do tend to be written by male authors, and I'd say around two thirds of those are from North America. That's not how I choose the books, it's just an average representation of what's in the book store.

Trying to think of the last female-written book I've read ... I think it was Oh Pure and Radiant Heart, by Lydia Millet. Really excellent book, almost Vonnegut-like in theme.

 

[foo]

actually, for what it's worth Pie Face is pretty similar to me. She does read more novels by women than I do, but barely.. .

well i don't know what else to say really. except to reiterate that i find it sad.

not sad in a rude dissing way just sad on behalf of all the fantastic books written by women. and sad for you if i'm honest - 'cos you and PieEye really are missing out.

imo of course.

 

[Fez909]

My thread on the same topic threw up some good recommendations. You might find it useful Dub: Female authors

 

[Dubversion]

not sad in a rude dissing way just sad on behalf of all the fantastic books written by women. and sad for you if i'm honest - 'cos you and PieEye really are missing out.

not sure if that follows though. I'm going to die before I read a fraction of the books I want to. I'm going to miss out on thousands of great books by male and female authors. Since I'm not going to read them all, it makes sense to read the ones I'm enjoying. Which - by accident, not design - is predominantly the ones i've described.

I think Pie Face would probably take umbrage as well - she's one of the best read people I know, studied literature for years, knows her stuff. She reads women, but she reads men more. Do you think she's missing out? Or just making a choice in the face of impossible odds?

 

[goldenecitrone]

Most of the books I've read have been by male authors, but I've read many of the classics and it seems that women didn't really have the same access to getting published as men did several generations back. I'm determined to read some Doris Lessing and Iris Murdoch over the next few months.

 

[sojourner]

Are you going to reply to my question about recognition Dubversion?

 

[Vintage Paw]

Skipping through the thread to post before I've read it all because I'm supposed to be writing an essay

Anyway, yes, absolutely. I'd say 95%. However, I'm currently completing a degree in American Studies, for which I'm concentrating on literature, so it's kind of unavoidable. From my 2 modules this semester there are 3 novels by women, the rest are men. And my dissertaion will be on a book by a man. And my MRes thesis will be on a book by a man, which will mean most of my reading throughout the rest of my MRes will be other stuff by other men for comparison.

However, that man is black, so I suppose 1/3rd of the unholy trinity is broken.