Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

White Hart Tulse Hill

Adam Ray

New Member
Does anyone know what’s happening with the White Hart, Tulse Hill? It’s a beautiful building and focal point that’s quickly turning into an eyesore :(
 

T & P

|-o-| (-o-) |-o-|
The way lease prices are going (and have been for a while), I find it difficult to imagine anyone managing to make it work, even less so with two well-functioning pubs already operating on its doorstep.
 
Last edited:

editor

hiraethified
The way lease prices are going (and have been for a while), I find it difficult to imagagine anyone managing to make it work, even less so with two well-functioning pubs already operating on its doorstep.
Having popular nearby pubs can be a positive sometimes as it means you've got already people walking past!

But as you say, those daft lease prices means it's really unlikely to make a go of the place as a traditional pub.
 

Nanker Phelge

Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
Having popular nearby pubs can be a positive sometimes as it means you've got already people walking past!
90% of people that chanced upon the Hart and came in would turn around and go back out again....

Got a bit better when the Golum took over, and then reverted back at the end when the Irish fella had it...
 

editor

hiraethified
90% of people that chanced upon the Hart and came in would turn around and go back out again....

Got a bit better when the Golum took over, and then reverted back at the end when the Irish fella had it...
The location is great: on the main drag, right next to a busy station and multiple bus routes with plenty of footfall - but the useless bunch that ran the place actively put people off going in.

I only went the last time just to see if they'd throw me out for standing up. The twats.
 

T & P

|-o-| (-o-) |-o-|
90% of people that chanced upon the Hart and came in would turn around and go back out again...
The Tulse Hill Hotel has proved it is possible to attract a whole load of new punters to a pub that had for decades previously been a complete dive avoided by the very people who frequent it nowadays. But of course it required a (presumably) very costly refurbishment.

The Hart could quite probably become as popular with a similarly comprehensive reinvention, but as always it’d come down to numbers. I’m still a bit surprised how successful the THH has turned out. I’d be interested to know how much they paid for the lease (or perhaps freehold?) of the building.

IIRC when the Hart was for sale recently the asking price was nearly £2m? Add in the best paid another million at least to make it decent, and the business case must become very difficult. I suspect the THH does pretty well out of its hotel lodgings and gourmet dinner shit but I’m not sure at all the area could support a second such pub.
 

DJWrongspeed

radio eros
If you look at the Railway & Knowles they're much bigger. Perhaps it's just not viable as it is anymore. I was wonder how the Elm Park Tavern runs but perhaps has lower costs. Don't tend to go there anymore because they changed the furniture, floor and put in tiles and now you can't hear what anyone's saying:(
 

BusLanes

Pedestrian
If you look at the Railway & Knowles they're much bigger. Perhaps it's just not viable as it is anymore. I was wonder how the Elm Park Tavern runs but perhaps has lower costs. Don't tend to go there anymore because they changed the furniture, floor and put in tiles and now you can't hear what anyone's saying:(
Elm Park is on its second owners since it reopened. The current lot seem more like the normal pub landlords than the King & Co hipsters (I like both). Seems busy enough but then I guess it's hard to know if that means profitable enough
 

jimbarkanoodle

Well-Known Member
Elm Park is on its second owners since it reopened. The current lot seem more like the normal pub landlords than the King & Co hipsters (I like both). Seems busy enough but then I guess it's hard to know if that means profitable enough
I was in the King and Co once and overheard the bearded bellend who runs it whingeing that the Elm Park patrons wouldnt buy their fancy, expensive craft beer. Made me quite glad that it didnt work out for them.
 

Brixton Hatter

Home is south London mate
Great news it appears the White Hart is on its way back.

Unless anything has changed in the past two years, the building itself is owned by a family rather than any big firm. They wanted to rent it out for around £70k - £90k per year (can't remember the exact figure) which I thought was quite a lot, given the size - or sell it for around £2.5m. Could have been vulnerable, so good to hear a pub is the plan.

I've been inside the upstairs and cellar etc. It does need some work/investment. There's big rooms upstiars which could be used for B&B or for staff to live there. There's an upstairs kitchen (on the small side) so food is a possibility. There's even a small roof terrace, though I'm not sure they could open it to the public unless they did a bit of safety work.

Given the apparent costs involved, I'm not expecting a straight replacement for the White Hart - a locals pub with cheapish beer, sports on the telly etc.

Whatever it's like, I imagine they would take some trade off the Tulse Hill Hotel, because it's right outside the station and much easier to get to without crossing loads of busy roads.
 

editor

hiraethified
Great news it appears the White Hart is on its way back.

Unless anything has changed in the past two years, the building itself is owned by a family rather than any big firm. They wanted to rent it out for around £70k - £90k per year (can't remember the exact figure) which I thought was quite a lot, given the size - or sell it for around £2.5m. Could have been vulnerable, so good to hear a pub is the plan.

I've been inside the upstairs and cellar etc. It does need some work/investment. There's big rooms upstiars which could be used for B&B or for staff to live there. There's an upstairs kitchen (on the small side) so food is a possibility. There's even a small roof terrace, though I'm not sure they could open it to the public unless they did a bit of safety work.

Given the apparent costs involved, I'm not expecting a straight replacement for the White Hart - a locals pub with cheapish beer, sports on the telly etc.

Whatever it's like, I imagine they would take some trade off the Tulse Hill Hotel, because it's right outside the station and much easier to get to without crossing loads of busy roads.
I suspect that it will take trade off the Tulse Hill Tavern too, but the Railway will be fine: they've got a really loyal crowd and have a unique offering.
 

jimbarkanoodle

Well-Known Member
There's big rooms upstiars which could be used for B&B or for staff to live there.
Does any pub do the decent thing these days, and let their staff live above the pub for free/peppercorn rent? Id have thought in London, that would be the last thing on their minds, and would rent out the rooms at 'market value' to subsidise the pubs income.
 

Big Bertha

Marinekanone
Does any pub do the decent thing these days, and let their staff live above the pub for free/peppercorn rent? Id have thought in London, that would be the last thing on their minds, and would rent out the rooms at 'market value' to subsidise the pubs income.
Probably if they can’t be bothered to refurbish/soundproof/make safe & comply with H&S and HMO regs they’ll punt them out to staff.
 

T & P

|-o-| (-o-) |-o-|
I suspect that it will take trade off the Tulse Hill Tavern too, but the Railway will be fine: they've got a really loyal crowd and have a unique offering.
The only way it would take any trade off the Tulse Hill Hotel is if it's given the full gentrification treatment. The type of demographics you see at the THH are not going to switch- or even ocassionally patronise- any other pub that is not broadly similar.
 

ska invita

back on the other side
From my expereince of going there Prince of Peckham has done the miraculous - its a smart modern pub welcoming to all that has kept the locals in, and has kept its BAME punters.
Hard to know how its done that - partly through its music policy perhaps - but whatever it is, it bodes pretty well for the White Hart

compare with the incarnation of that pub before that: some people from Upper Street who came down, "smartened" it and had to shut within a year or two (i forget how long now)
 

jimbarkanoodle

Well-Known Member
If its owned by the people who run the Prince of Peckham, then it probably be more like the Railway than the Tulse Hill Hotel. Think bottomless brunches, music events and an all day food offering, but not likely to be particularly 'gastro'. Oh and your standard around the £5 mark pints which are all the rage in pubs in London these days.
 

jimbarkanoodle

Well-Known Member
From my expereince of going there Prince of Peckham has done the miraculous - its a smart modern pub welcoming to all that has kept the locals in, and has kept its BAME punters.
Hard to know how its done that - partly through its music policy perhaps - but whatever it is, it bodes pretty well for the White Hart

compare with the incarnation of that pub before that: some people from Upper Street who came down, "smartened" it and had to shut within a year or two (i forget how long now)
the owner is a Peckham local who was keen to include all of the community, rather than just the hipster crowd, according to this article:

 
Top