i think the other thing that annoys me about application forms is that they create more opportunity for the employer to expect you to use the sector's jargon; i've found this with application forms for jobs at charities anyway. if you're coming from outside the charity sector it's nigh-on impossible to know how to phrase things in the right way, or even sometimes how to know what exactly you're supposed to write about. i think that's not actually a reflection on the candidate's ability, it just hampers people who are coming from outside the sector and so is potentially discriminatory.
Which do you prefer: Application forms or CV
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dolly's gal
killing things
kea said:
exactly!
although apparently the larger charities are starting to take this on board and are working at providing more inclusive means of applying for jobs.
but i mean, ffs, it's not friggin rocket science is it?!
so do you think cv's are becoming more popular than application forms? i prefer the idea of charity work if i can get it - but i thought that more and more companies were asking for an application form process rather than a cv. i do think that tailoring the cv to the job and then a really good covering letter are a much better idea than a standard crappy form.
orang utan: i am making 100 applications. unfortunately!
orang utan: i am making 100 applications. unfortunately!
Orang Utan
Maybe I like the misery
Vixen said:
Blimey - my sympathies - I guess I've been lucky!
<smug mode>I've only been turned down once too
dolly's gal
killing things
Vixen said:
hm don't know about that. not in the public/charity sector. but i have noticed that they are being asked for more than they used to be so maybe that's indicative of something. i know where i work they are actively seeking to make the employment process more inclusive, cos guess what, the majority of people (i think in the "diversity study" HR did it was in excess of 90%) who work here are white, middle class, with uni degrees.
dolly's gal
killing things
trashpony said:Aren't application forms designed with equal opps in mind? So it's easier to compare like with like?
depends what's on the person spec! sure you can compare a well educated person who writes well with a similarly well educated person who writes well but it doesn't mean you're nesc getting the best person for the job.
trashpony
Hag
dolly's gal said:
Completely agree re that you might not be getting the best person
It's just that they seem to be much more widely used in the public, rather than the private, sector IME, which leads me to suspect that it's about being able to compare. Or is it just to discourage people who apply for thousands of jobs.
Years ago, I used to work for this really small graphics agency and we advertised a job with 'no experience necessary'. We had 4,000 applications - and there were three of us to go through them all
trashpony said:Aren't application forms designed with equal opps in mind? So it's easier to compare like with like?
They're still an utter, utter pain in the arse though
Yes, they are. Yes, that's the idea - the reason for them. Yes, I know the good reasons for them outweigh the inconvenience - but I agree wholeheartedly that they are an utter, utter pain.
dolly's gal
killing things
trashpony said:Completely agree re that you might not be getting the best person
It's just that they seem to be much more widely used in the public, rather than the private, sector IME, which leads me to suspect that it's about being able to compare. Or is it just to discourage people who apply for thousands of jobs.
sure it's about being able to compare, but it's not about equal opps/diversity. and i think charities are starting to see that now.
janeb
WW Tyrion do?
As someone who does a fair bit of recruitment (public sector), and whose company sends out application forms but also accepts CV's as long as the bsic info is on it, I much prefer to see application forms when I'm shortlisting - it is much easier to score if you know where to look for the info and if someone attaches a decent, 1 or 2 sided additional info sheet that goes through the skills, under the headings we've used, it saves so much time and I think is fairer to the candidates.
What I really hate is an application for, with additional sheets, AND a CV thrown in for good measure as to be fair you have to spend an awful lot of time trawling through looking for evidence of the skills you're after.
I can get 80+ applications for 1 post and shortlisting that pile of papers down to a practical number can take a v long time if the candidates don't help.
On a personal note, maybe it's because I've always worked in the public sector and so am used to application forms, but I prefer to fill them in as they give a structure and the freedom to tailor info on the additional info sheet.
janeb x
What I really hate is an application for, with additional sheets, AND a CV thrown in for good measure as to be fair you have to spend an awful lot of time trawling through looking for evidence of the skills you're after.
I can get 80+ applications for 1 post and shortlisting that pile of papers down to a practical number can take a v long time if the candidates don't help.
On a personal note, maybe it's because I've always worked in the public sector and so am used to application forms, but I prefer to fill them in as they give a structure and the freedom to tailor info on the additional info sheet.
janeb x
Guineveretoo
Mostly bewildered
Application forms don't have to be handwritten. In fact, they are often provided electronically, these days.
CVs, however, are often produced by an external body/company, and can look very professional, and can make someone seem quite different from the person they actually are.
Although I can see why some people might think that is a plus, it often simply means a waste of your time, if you go along, and the potential employer is expecting someone different.
I have been on both sides of that.
I believe that any organisation who is genuine about equal opportunities, will have a tailored application form, appropriate to the job, only asking questions which relate to the job and the necessary skills and requirements.
CVs, however, are often produced by an external body/company, and can look very professional, and can make someone seem quite different from the person they actually are.
Although I can see why some people might think that is a plus, it often simply means a waste of your time, if you go along, and the potential employer is expecting someone different.
I have been on both sides of that.
I believe that any organisation who is genuine about equal opportunities, will have a tailored application form, appropriate to the job, only asking questions which relate to the job and the necessary skills and requirements.
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