which country are you most uneasy about?

[upsidedownwalrus]

But - and it's a big but - many Chinese people point (if you look on that chinadaily forum I linked to) to whites settling in Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the USA et al, and the plight of the native people there, and point out that a. Tibet is miniscule compared to the total of all those places and b. that Tibetans today are not as badly off as say Aussie Aborigines.

That's not my view, it's one that I've commonly read expressed by Chinese people.

China very much is a developing country in my view. And from that perspective I think they are doing a good job.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

What I love as well is the 'Well it might be a dictatorship, but really it's OK' stuff...fucking priceless...

No - this is a view that I hear from Chinese people. They point to everything from the state of the post-USSR Russia to Africa to the US invasion of Iraq, and ask precisely what has an overnight change achieved? From their POV their government is changing things slowly but surely and they think that this is the right way to do things.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

Mind you, I can't look at the 'Has china got the perfect system' thread without my IE blocking out urban!!!!

 

[kyser_soze]

China very much is a developing country

I think this is the key issue - so many people still think of China as 'developing' when it's way past that stage; same goes for India too.

But they aren't - there might be massive income disparities, but both are now well inside the Top 10 global economies, PetroChina, China's biggest oil company is now worth double - DOUBLE - Exxon Mobil, at a market cap of $1.1 TRILLION (briefly) - first global company to do so. China has the worlds largest foreign currency reserves. This is not a developing nation.

And yet what do we know about it's activities? We all know that Exxon are wankers, but how much investigation has been carried out on PetroChina (not a lot)...indeed, how much is known about the activities of ANY of China's largest companies, state or privately owned? I mean we know that child and slave labour (sorry, prison labour) is widespread in China (we know this because Gap and Nike both keep getting caught out)...

I remember a couple of years ago an Australian complaining to me about the world's opprobrium being levelled at them over that Afghani refugee business, and 'how dare the world have a go at us, it's in our back yard'.. He wasn't too happy to be reminded that Australia has been bigging itself up on the international stage for a while now, and doing so leaves you wide open for everyone to have an opinion...same is going to happen to China.

 

[kyser_soze]

No - this is a view that I hear from Chinese people. They point to everything from the state of the post-USSR Russia to Africa to the US invasion of Iraq, and ask precisely what has an overnight change achieved? From their POV their government is changing things slowly but surely and they think that this is the right way to do things.

Oh I don't doubt it - TBH I think the long term plan from some in the Party is based around orthodox Marxism and that the country is being shepherded through capitalism so following the development curve that's supposed to happen!

 

[Spion]

so many people still think of China as 'developing' when it's way past that stage; same goes for India too.

But they aren't - there might be massive income disparities, but both are now well inside the Top 10 global economies, PetroChina, China's biggest oil company is now worth double - DOUBLE - Exxon Mobil, at a market cap of $1.1 TRILLION (briefly) - first global company to do so. China has the worlds largest foreign currency reserves. This is not a developing nation.

Top 10 global economies? China is 86th and India 118th in GDP per capita (IMF figures). I'd be very hesitant in calling that 'developed'.

 

[fela fan]

Top 10 global economies? China is 86th and India 118th in GDP per capita (IMF figures). I'd be very hesitant in calling that 'developed'.

Exactly. It's quite simply a 'developing world' country, ie the second tier of nations.

 

[fela fan]

Given you don't even know what the Chinese overseas service is called, you're not really in a position to comment, are you?

This from a few years ago is a pointer, but to even think for a second that a country as old and as potentially powerful as China - the nation that produced the first guidebook to warfare - would not have an overseas investigation and espionage arm of government is naive and foolish.

You seem to still think of China as some kind of 2nd world nation, not the emergent superpower it is. Same goes for the resurgent Russia - resurgent on the back of mineral wealth.

And yet you seem to think that the leaders of both countries don't have geopolitical ambitions...it's fucking tragic, it really is. The idea that China will be some form of inactive, benevolent power that happily sails through the world on a boat called cooperation with everyone, and that won't be prepared to use the same strong arm tactics it uses in it's dealings with Tibet, Taiwan and over issues like the Spratley islands when it's sphere of influence is impacted you really have no idea of the history of great powers.

What I love as well is the 'Well it might be a dictatorship, but really it's OK' stuff...fucking priceless...

At least you used the word 'seems'.

I don't think of china as a dictatorship. And if they were, i'd not think it was ok.

My comments on china are in comparison with the USA.

 

[purves grundy]

I think this is the key issue - so many people still think of China as 'developing' when it's way past that stage; same goes for India too.

But they aren't - there might be massive income disparities, but both are now well inside the Top 10 global economies, PetroChina, China's biggest oil company is now worth double - DOUBLE - Exxon Mobil, at a market cap of $1.1 TRILLION (briefly) - first global company to do so. China has the worlds largest foreign currency reserves. This is not a developing nation.

And yet what do we know about it's activities? We all know that Exxon are wankers, but how much investigation has been carried out on PetroChina (not a lot)...indeed, how much is known about the activities of ANY of China's largest companies, state or privately owned? I mean we know that child and slave labour (sorry, prison labour) is widespread in China (we know this because Gap and Nike both keep getting caught out)...

The key here, I think, is the degree to which companies can caught on the hoof by an alert civil society back home. The days of western companies being able to get away with anything are numbered imo, mainly due to the fact that eyes are watching them wherever they go. I fear this isn't the case for Chinese companies. I wonder if any of them have any kind of a corporate responsibility agenda? Given the 'no strings attached' policies of their government towards development, I'd doubt it.

And seeing as peeps are reporting 'what people have said', I'll add that many of the Burmese activists I know would much rather have western companies working in Burma than Chinese. Nothing to do with racism - the Chinese are well integrated in Burmese society - more to do with the social costs of development which the current exploiters don't give a monkeys about.

 

[david dissadent]

The US has the power to inflict its will on the world and has shown sufficient self serving bad judgement to be a major worry to everyone.

Pakistan comes second, but perhaps should come first as a nuclear power with at least three major rebellions, the worlds biggest state sponsor of terrorism (or at least competing with the US for that title) and in a state of extreame political upheaval, all of this with nukes floating round and no one ever mentions biochemical weapons from Pakistan...... small but a potential god awful head ache.

Then Russia as they are paranoid, angry, loads of nukes and suddenly rather rich. Those oil riches could start disapearing, and there is nothing too clear about what follows Putin.

Israel is nuclear armed with fuck all regard for anything other than itself and digging itself into a strategic nightmare with such abandon of concern for human rights it may find itself dumped out of the west and even americas good books in a couple of years. A lonely isolated nuclear armed regime with hypernationalist tendencies is not something you want as a neighbour.

Iran, if it gets ideas about a Shia Empire, but I dont think it does so at the minute so its probibly more a potential but not too likely loose cannon.

And for some reason Japans hypernationalism and new found military resurgence kind of give me the creeps.

Chinas mission in life is itself. It has too much at home to worry about to get concerned with the wider world, other than to help itself grow. It is one country that will sell the family jewels for stability.

 

[camouflage]

One of the more moronic comments about China/Tibet. Because obviously Tibetans are extremely happy about occupation, mass arrests etc, not to mention the Chinese colonisation of the country whereby the locals are essentially been outbred by incoming Chinese migrants.

Then lets look at China in Africa - just as willing to deal with despots as Europe and the US, still just as willing to turn a blind eye to suffering (best example being the Sudanese consulate denying there was a problem of any kind in Darfur)

Yup, not expansionist in the same way the US isn't expansionist.

*stares at toes*

 

[xenon]

The US, Russia. Generally the Middle East.

Same old suspects. There are plenty of other dodgy places but they're unlikely to have as much negative effect on life in the UK as those 3 areas.

 

[xenon]

Still Luxembourg for me.

yeah, yeah. You keep looking that way. Meanwhile the Andorans....

 

[London_Calling]

The most dangerous country is always the empire of the day and its closest cohorts, unless you are the empire of the day. Is this a trick question?

 

[purves grundy]

The most dangerous country is always the empire of the day and its closest cohorts, unless you are the empire of the day. Is this a trick question?

No, but it's a more subtle question than your answer suggests

 

[London_Calling]

Fair enough. But it's the Internet . . .