Which affected football most ?

[revol68]

Don't you think that if you and your mates actually went to watch football in Ireland then the standard would improve , especially if everyone else did that as well . Your moaning about the standard of Irish football being bad and not worth watching but can't you see that by supporting Man Utd you are contributing to the crap standard of Irish football .
Your happily talking about market forces so surely you'd understand that if you actually went to irish games and created a demand for good quality football the increased revenue for the clubs from rising attendances would lead to the clubs being able to supply that demand !

what planet do you live on?

Northern Ireland has a population of 1.5 million, to expect it to support a quality football league is absurd, it can't and won't. Even if Northern Ireland was able to produce adequate numbers of half decent footballers, they would simply move to England (as they presently do) for better coaching and an ability to make some sort of living in it. Promising Irish players have been making such a journey for years before Wee Georgie Best jumped on a boat.

And frankly the idea that me and my mates should spend 10 quid cheering on a fucking awful shower of shite every saturday in the cold in the deluded beleif that some day our attendence will be rewarded with some minor increase in footballing ability is as hilarious as finding me in mass on Sunday. Atleast it's boredom only last 45 minutes, you get a free biscuit and there's the implausible promise of a next life.

Honestly there is better craic, banter and atmosphere in the pubs for Premier league matches than there is on the deserted terraces of the Irish league, and a good less sectarianism too.

 

[Termite Man]

what planet do you live on?

Northern Ireland has a population of 1.5 million,

I forgot you were northern Irish ignore me then

 

[Rollem]

If on the otherhand youse wanna kick off a social revolution and level capital and the state to smouldering ashes you have my full support, but if youse are going to bleat as if football is not a commodity and should somehow be exempt from the same market forces that stop people even owning their own home, or adequately clothing and feeding their kids, I'm afraid I'll just have to maintain an air of dismissive contempt.

i do think football is a commodity. might not always have been that way (i doubt i'd get let into Loftus Road for free at half time as a 12 year old these days) but it certianly is now.

i dont like it and, to be fair, i dont know what to do about it, as i think its gone so far down the path of finance and returns that it wouldn't be able to find its way back even if it wanted to. maybe the future is watching lower league football if we want the vibe of yesteryear; standing on terraces, being 2 foot away from the action, and getting change from a twenty pund note. doesn't mean i wont moan about the cost of watching my team, sign petition after petition demanding "change" (though no-one ever seems to be able to explain to me exactly what change the petition seeks to bring about) and wish i could take my family to watch each saturday and not need a small loan to do so. as it is, i get freebies every now and then from my bro in laws season ticket when he cant go. sad but thats it. i've other things to spend my money on now (weirdly things more important than football! )

anyway, i think i digress somewhat from the OP. as far as competitiveness, or the lack of it goes... i am not sure that the premiership, or champions league alone are to blame.

 

[Rollem]

Your happily talking about market forces so surely you'd understand that if you actually went to irish games and created a demand for good quality football the increased revenue for the clubs from rising attendances would lead to the clubs being able to supply that demand !

when i go to Loftus Road i demand good quality football. me and the other 16 odd thousand dont always get it though

 

[revol68]

I forgot you were northern Irish ignore me then

Even the republic can't sustain a decent league, with it's population.

The facts are most football fans in Ireland are more attached to English teams than the various collection of duffers on offer here, it's not a new thing either, it's not because of evil Murdoch or Sky Television or Super Sunday hyperbole, it's because Irish players have always played for English teams (think of the old Arsenal teams!!!), we get the BBC and other media and share many connections, especially with the old Industrial centres like Manchester and Liverpool, not to mention the large irish populations in London.

I've always found it a good thing that throughout the troubles people of all sides have supported various English teams, and unlike irish league football it was immune from sectarian undertones, allowing a kind of mutual sphere of interaction and banter.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

what planet do you live on?

Northern Ireland has a population of 1.5 million, to expect it to support a quality football league is absurd, it can't and won't. Even if Northern Ireland was able to produce adequate numbers of half decent footballers, they would simply move to England (as they presently do) for better coaching and an ability to make some sort of living in it. Promising Irish players have been making such a journey for years before Wee Georgie Best jumped on a boat.

And frankly the idea that me and my mates should spend 10 quid cheering on a fucking awful shower of shite every saturday in the cold in the deluded beleif that some day our attendence will be rewarded with some minor increase in footballing ability is as hilarious as finding me in mass on Sunday. Atleast it's boredom only last 45 minutes, you get a free biscuit and there's the implausible promise of a next life.

Honestly there is better craic, banter and atmosphere in the pubs for Premier league matches than there is on the deserted terraces of the Irish league, and a good less sectarianism too.

so quality is linked to quantity is it? i see. and the idea of actually leaving the safety of your nice warm wee pub to actually get involved in the game isn't something you're interested in. and yet you are the football messiah whose happy to put the world to rights about the game of football. you really couldn't make you you up, you're priceless revol, priceless.

 

[Termite Man]

Even the republic can't sustain a decent league, with it's population.

The facts are most football fans in Ireland are more attached to English teams than the various collection of duffers on offer here, it's not a new thing either, it's not because of evil Murdoch or Sky Television or Super Sunday hyperbole, it's because Irish players have always played for English teams (think of the old Arsenal teams!!!), we get the BBC and other media and share many connections, especially with the old Industrial centres like Manchester and Liverpool, not to mention the large irish populations in London.

I've always found it a good thing that throughout the troubles people of all sides have supported various English teams, and unlike irish league football it was immune from sectarian undertones, allowing a kind of mutual sphere of interaction and banter.

It would be nicer if you could support good irish teams without the sectarian undertones but that probably won't happen

I do agree with you about the market forces of the game , but certainly with the introduction the premier league that was the richest most powerfull clubs doing something that would benefit them and fuck over other clubs .
Just out of interest were you for or against or indifferent to the Glazer takeover of Man Utd ?

 

[Termite Man]

so quality is linked to quantity is it? i see. and the idea of actually leaving the safety of your nice warm wee pub to actually get involved in the game isn't something you're interested in. and yet you are the football messiah whose happy to put the world to rights about the game of football. you really couldn't make you you up, you're priceless revol, priceless.

to be fair to revol if there is sectarian undercurrents in the NI game then I don't blame him for wanting to avoid it .

 

[revol68]

so quality is linked to quantity is it? i see. and the idea of actually leaving the safety of your nice warm wee pub to actually get involved in the game isn't something you're interested in. and yet you are the football messiah whose happy to put the world to rights about the game of football. you really couldn't make you you up, you're priceless revol, priceless.

okay then smart arse when was the last time you handed over ten quid to stand in a shed cheering on a Sunday League team?

And of course there is a link between quantity and quality, there is an economics of scale. Even if Northern Ireland was producing 50 george best's and norman whitesides a year it would only mean 50 more excellent players in the EPL, Northern Ireland can't sustain a professional league, it isn't possible.

There is also the fact that me and my mates actually enjoy football and that means we like to see it played well, by it's finest artisans, not murdered by a bunch of lumbering oafs, it'd be even better if we had the chance to see it in the flesh more often but in the absence of that I'm happy to watch it on my arse with a pint in hand.

 

[revol68]

It would be nicer if you could support good irish teams without the sectarian undertones but that probably won't happen

I do agree with you about the market forces of the game , but certainly with the introduction the premier league that was the richest most powerfull clubs doing something that would benefit them and fuck over other clubs .
Just out of interest were you for or against or indifferent to the Glazer takeover of Man Utd ?

As a fan I was against the Glazer takeover, as someone with a basic understanding of capitalism I was largely indifferent. The moral arguments carry little weight with me, nor the anti yank rhetoric (as if the local owners had the best interests of their 'customers' at heart), the only thing that pissed me off was being loaded with a pile of debt that'd the club would pay for.

Regarding sectarianism in the Irish league, well it's not really an issue for me supporting Larne (yeah they're mostly prod but not like Linfield) but it's more the legacy it has left. It's a simple fact that there's more banter to be had as a fan of an English club (in work, the pub etc etc) than there is for the Irish league, as the only one's who really care tend to be Linfield, Glentoran or Cliftonville fans and those clubs are extremely rooted in sectarian identity.

 

[quimcunx]

My resident expert (flatmate) says it was the combination of the formation of the premier division and Sky getting involved and pouring shitloads of money into it.

 

[revol68]

I reckon it is because all the other teams are shite and small time.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

to be fair to revol if there is sectarian undercurrents in the NI game then I don't blame him for wanting to avoid it .

i accept from the outset that it isn't the same situation entirely but back in the 70s, the NF had an overt strategy of recruiting at the football. whilst one effect of that was undoubtedly to put some people off going along, it also made some other people organise themselves and drive the fuckers away from certain grounds. if you acknowledge there is a problem, you can either moan about it and do nothing, or you can try to make a difference.

 

[revol68]

i accept from the outset that it isn't the same situation entirely but back in the 70s, the NF had an overt strategy of recruiting at the football. whilst one effect of that was undoubtedly to put some people off going along, it also made some other people organise themselves and drive the fuckers away from certain grounds. if you acknowledge there is a problem, you can either moan about it and do nothing, or you can try to make a difference.

The fact you are even comparing the situation of the NF in the seventies to that of Northern Ireland is fucking laughable.

The idea that me and few mates could turn around something that has been ongoing for centuries and permeates nearly all spheres of public life is toucing in it's niavity.

Honestly when the whole identity of a club is shrouded in NF banners, when songs about killing blacks are sang as par for the course, then you might have an idea. Now then try telling a group of mixed raced lads that they should organise to fight it on the terraces. Catch a clue you fucking muppet.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

<snip>If on the otherhand youse wanna kick off a social revolution and level capital and the state to smouldering ashes you have my full support, but if youse are going to bleat as if football is not a commodity and should somehow be exempt from the same market forces that stop people even owning their own home, or adequately clothing and feeding their kids, I'm afraid I'll just have to maintain an air of dismissive contempt.

the revolution starts at closing time eh?

 

[aylee]

I think the huge commercial success of English football generally is responsible .... it has had the effect of widening the gap between the elite clubs and the run-of-the-mill.