Where's Udo?

[niclas]

I want him to start a thread condemning the Plaid-Labour deal because it promises:

- an end to privatisation in the NHS, an end to the use of private hospitals using NHS money and taking all catering/cleaning contracts back in house

- the effective end of council house stock transfer, building new council housing and tackling the v real problem of affordable housing (including that caused by holiday homes in parts of the country)

- the medical prescription of heroin to addicts as part of a programme of harm reduction

Not enough, but a start. And unlike the left grouplets, who stood on similar platforms in the May elections, Plaid is now in a position to deliver.

Oh, and it also has the added advantage of fucking off a large proportion of Labour reactionaries like Kinnockio, who will be forced to share a platform with UKIP and the BNP come the referendum on greater powers...

 

[Col_Buendia]

Call out thread.

Bin/ban etc.

 

[LilMissHissyFit]

He's busy rescuing illegals from corrupt harrassing policemen of course

 

[lewislewis]

There hasn't been a thread on the Lab-Plaid deal yet. I started one in the UK Politics section but nobody gave a shit, although one person was quite amazed that an end to PFI's in the health service was being contemplated anywhere in the UK.

It's a (reformist) socialist's wet dream, though whether Peter Hain (or whoever replaces him) allows it to go through is another matter.

Doesn't anyone else think it's stupid, annoying and a bit insulting that we have to ask Peter Hain for permission to make our own laws? The basic message is that we aren't mature enough or intelligent enough to govern ourselves, and sadly alot of people in Wales are happy to go along with this blindly and ignorantly.

But we're getting it together. That's push this left-centre government forward and show how things can be done differently to the London prescription.

 

[Dic Penderyn]

I think it's stupid, annoying and a bit insulting that we have to ask politicians for permission to run our own lives. The basic message is that we aren't mature enough or intelligent enough to organise ourselves, and sadly alot of people in the world are happy to go along with this blindly and ignorantly.

 

[lewislewis]

I think it's stupid, annoying and a bit insulting that we have to ask Politicas for permission to run our own lives. The basic message is that we aren't mature enough or intelligent enough to organise ourselves, and sadly alot of people in the world are happy to go along with this blindly and ignorantly.

What if some of the politicians are ordinary people just like us?

 

[Col_Buendia]

Haven't you read Animal Farm?

 

[poster342002]

.

 

[lewislewis]

Haven't you read Animal Farm?

Yep. I thought it potrayed human nature perfectly, and when Snowball was 'in charge't it was cool!

But surely you don't imagine for a second living conditions here are comparable to Tsarist Russia?

 

[Dic Penderyn]

How exactly does it make any difference if the master is from the same backgroud as the slave?

He is still the master.

 

[lewislewis]

Yep the people elect him/her.

 

[Udo Erasmus]

Before the ink has even dried on the One Wales document, the local council in Cardiff is trying to close down schools - this is the most eloquent critique of Niclas!

George Orwell also said in 1984, "If there's any hope left, it's with the proles . . ."

One can imagine, a supporter of Labour coming on here with the same type of argument as Niclas. Labour has brought in the minimum wage, ploughed money into the NHS, abolished prescription charges in Wales etc. etc.

In fact, all that is offered by the "One Wales" document is not the beginnings of socialism but Plaid propping up a continuation of Rhodri Morgan's policies which is New Labour with a few minor policy differences.

In answer to the enquiry Udo has been out of town for a few days. But it is more noticeable that Niclas seems to have disappeared rather than answer questions about his parties support for St. Athan's, Nuclear Weapons, and attraction to the Tories.

I will detail what is wrong with the "One Wales" document when I get some more time, but needless to say that it does not promise any of the things Niclas writes above, but is in fact, incredibly vague on all the essentials and this vagueness is usually reflects the plan of politicians to shelve the proposals or work around them to pursue their neoliberal agenda at a later date.

Not enough, but a start. And unlike the left grouplets, who stood on similar platforms in the May elections, Plaid is now in a position to deliver.

Plaid didn't stand on a left wing platform in May.

If the Plaid Left were using these minor reforms as a platform to wrestle for more left wing policies and push for further reform this might be something. But instead they are trying to sell the "One Wales" government as a massive leap forward.

Take the issue of health.

Plaid haven't called for plans for hospital cutbacks to be scrapped, instead they are "Put on hold" in the One Wales document.

PFI is ruled out (something to be welcomed) but their is no explanation where the money will come from to fund the health service and projects. Will Plaid and Rhodri Morgan be prepared to lead mass campaigns to force Westminster to cough up some cash? Are Plaid and New Labour in Wales prepared for confrontation? All the evidence would suggest not. So we can expect that Plaid/Labour policies on health are only temporary sops to a disgruntled electorate.

And Plaid have no problem with PFI in transport, education and all the other sectors.

We have to be clear as well, why the "One Wales" document opposes PFI in health but supports it all other areas.

This is not because of the "left" credentials of Labour or Plaid, but because of grassroots campaigns led by ordinary people to save the NHS and against hospital campaigns that has forces these capitalist parties to back down on their neoliberal agenda.

Let Niclas get orgasmic about Socialism through the marriage of Ieuan Whinge Jones and Doddery Rhodri Morgan: Our group will continue to build this grassroots resistance.

 

[lewislewis]

Udo, being as i'm such a reformist can you explain to me the performance of your revolutionary councillors on Tower Hamlets council? I'm not at all convinced that your party could do any better than Plaid in power, and certainly there is no chance of Respect ever winning anything in Wales. I'm sorry for being partisan but when an end to PFI in the health service is promised you don't congratulate us on winning this concession, all you do is attack Plaid by saying 'oh but it isn't good enough'. I will be very much scared if you and the SWP types ever hold any level of responsibility, you couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery let alone a government.

 

[Col_Buendia]

But surely you don't imagine for a second living conditions here are comparable to Tsarist Russia?

Jesus H Christ, it's not about living conditions, it's about power relationships. Blow me down but you folk need a reading lesson!! Did you not notice how they still lived on a farm...? I.E. no change in living conditions numpty!! But what did change? The relationship (of power) between the animals.

Now go back and read "Keep the Aspidistra Flying" again and give me a 2,000 word analysis of commodity fetishism before the weekend. Tsk!

[...and these people aspire to running Wales for us, I dunno...]

 

[lewislewis]

Jesus H Christ, it's not about living conditions, it's about power relationships. Blow me down but you folk need a reading lesson!! Did you not notice how they still lived on a farm...? I.E. no change in living conditions numpty!! But what did change? The relationship (of power) between the animals.

Now go back and read "Keep the Aspidistra Flying" again and give me a 2,000 word analysis of commodity fetishism before the weekend. Tsk!

[...and these people aspire to running Wales for us, I dunno...]

Why patronise me mate : (

Surely the living conditions in Tsarist Russia (being as bad as they were) provoked revolutionary activity. That was my point. There is not going to be a revolution here. Look around you in the world, i'm not saying Wales can't do better than this because we bloody well can, but there is not going to be an overthrow of a system that quite frankly, works. Maybe you'll prove me wrong one day, maybe not.

It's all well and good holding meetings and going to social centres (i've been to the Malcolm X appreciation meetings held by the SWP, good stuff), but a pay rise for nurses (like the Welsh government has just granted due to pressure by the Plaid leader Udo likes to denigrate Ieuan Wyn Jones, as demanded by the mass of the workers through their union, against Gordon Brown's advice and ahead of England) will help alot more people than the most well-intentioned anarchist/Respect member/other far-left sectlet warrior will be able to.

I also think the stoppage of hospital closures, the changes of the NHS structure, the laptop scheme and the new council houses and affordable houses will benefit far more people than anyone on this thread is able to. The system sucks but I want to get on with my life and get the best deal for my family, not be in a state of conflict.

 

[Karac]

Take the issue of health.

Plaid haven't called for plans for hospital cutbacks to be scrapped, instead they are "Put on hold" in the One Wales document.

PFI is ruled out (something to be welcomed) but their is no explanation where the money will come from to fund the health service and projects. Will Plaid and Rhodri Morgan be prepared to lead mass campaigns to force Westminster to cough up some cash? Are Plaid and New Labour in Wales prepared for confrontation? All the evidence would suggest not. So we can expect that Plaid/Labour policies on health are only temporary sops to a disgruntled electorate

If PFI doesnt come to Wales it will be a major bonus-certainly in the area of health.
Some Hospitals in England have basically sold all their stuff-hospitals and equipment to private companies.
Which they then rent back at exorbitant fees
Its going to be a huge problem in a few years-as that hospital and equipment becomes outdated-but the repayments to the Private company remain the same.
Plus factor in their profit motive -20%?
Its a disaster waiting to happen

 

[lewislewis]

The PFI unfortunately already exists in the NHS in Wales, as well as in other areas like schools and transports (though at much lower levels than in England- there has been no large-scale PFI's in schools in Wales apart from a few infamous examples). However the privatisation of the NHS in Wales will now come to an end.
PFI was actually really expensive, Wales deserves more money as it is, we are under-funded and the review of the Barnett Formula (won by Plaid, the Tories and Lib Dems) should resolve this issue and fill the funding gap. There is plenty of room in the health budget, it's just been wasted on private companies, private consultants and other PFI's.

After dealing with the NHS hopefully the coalition can then target education.

I am looking forward to the Coalition outlining it's policy proposals over the next few months. I just hope Labour will stick to it's promises and break away from London control. There are already hopeful signs.

 

[lewislewis]

Ieuan Wyn Jones, Plaid Cymru leader, outlining the Coalition government's proposals:

"Health care in Wales will follow a distinct public service delivery model. We will create a new national institute of health research; refocus dental services; develop a rural health plan which considers the unique circumstances of our rural communities. We will review NHS reconfiguration and changes to our District General Hospitals will not be implemented until relevant associated community health services are in place."

Coming back to earth for a moment, other policies I liked that IWJ talked about were:
* the right to buy council houses will be suspended in areas of housing shortage.

* Rate relief for small businesses, expanding the existing scheme. Brilliant news.

* Special attention to a specific curriculum for Wales. The start of a new era for Wales? Maybe, maybe not. I HOPE Plaid gets the education portfolio.